Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey everyone,

Here's a final tally on my Anery DH Snow litter that dropped over the weekend: 4 slugs, 6 Poss. DH Snows, 12 Anerys Poss. DH Snows, and (last but definitely not least) 1 Premie Snow. All the normals and Anerys are doing fine, as can be seen in the pic below. I'm a bit surprised, but very happy, with the ratio. I got a whole lot of Anerys which is great for me because now I just might holdback more than I orginally anticipated.

As for the little snow. The little guy started moving around today, but he/she still has a huge belly and has some yolk "hanging" externally. Below is a poor quality pic to show you what I mean. I'm happy that it started moving around today, but am still very concerned about all that yolk and that big ol' belly. I've been keeping him moist with water sprays and the heat pad remains on underneath the cage. Is there anything else I should be doing? Is it ok for me to move it separate shoebox or should I let him/her alone until the yolk breaks off on its own? I've had several litters before, but haven't had to deal with a premie like this, especially one as important to me as this little snow. Please, any advice from you all would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks to you all.

Jay

.

That is kind of a weird count. WE have to assume both snakes are het for albino since you got the snow, but if both snakes are het for anery you should have gotten roughly 1 out of four albinos(or snows) That is pretty strange if you ask me(I know you didn't ask) Maybe my figures are off, I would love to hear other opinions, congrats again on the sweet litter. Craig Kade

Hey Craig,

I'd love any opinions on the ratio as well. Like I mentioned in my post yesterday, the momma was purchased as an Anery 66% poss. het snow, so I was just waiting for the right time and the right male to prove her out as a het snow. The father, however, was a purchased as ONLY a het anery, and as far as I know, he was a sibling from a ghost litter. And that's it. So I guess the albino gene sneaked into the male somewhere down the line. I did put my 01 male albino with the mom, but he did absolutely nothing with her, plus if he do the job, or even part of the job, I would've gotten at least half albinos, right? One other thing, this is the very first year that this female has ever been in contact with any males.

So my only guess is that the het anery male, turned out to be a dh snow. Which is fine with me. But even then, the ratio of snow to anerys to normals to albinos is totally confusing me. I can only hypothesize that maybe the 4 slugs would've maybe been the missing albinos from the bunch, but still the anery count makes up way over half of the litter. Makes me scratch my head, I tell you.

I don't know. I really have no idea what happened. Right now, all I care about is taking care of this very special and long-awaited litter, and trying to decide which ones to keep, besides the snow of course, if he/she pulls through (fingers crossed).

Anyway, I'd love to hear other opinions on the ratio as well as some advice on what else to do to give the snow a better shot at making it through this very critical early stage of life.

Thanks all...Jay

I think I would agree 100% with Jeremy's post below. I would not be too sure the het anery is a dh snow, he should be, but who knows, try him on a het albino or something next year. Good luck with that snow, I think it will make it, again Jeremy hit the nail on the head with the yolk sack.It took me 63 babies from dh to dh before I finally hit, then I have people like you hit it when you shouldn't lol. Good luck. Craig Kade

I'm gonna do what Jeremy suggested and tie off that excess yolk and cut it off. I'm nervous as h@ll about doing it, but it's gotta be done. Man, I hope this lil fella makes it!

Thanks again for your time and input...Jay

Jay,

Big bellies are quite common in Albinos and Snows, and that is often the demise. However, that Belly doesn't look like the "BIG BELLY SYNDROME". It is BBS when the back half of the snake can NOT move. It lays quite limp.

However, ON TO the yolk. That is ACTUALLY a good thing in this case. You don't want that Snow to suck that up. That would make it a BBS snake. Since it has been a day, there is NO WAY it can suck that up. They will do that within the first 24 hours. If nothing after that, it is just waist. So, tie it off with some Fish Line or Dental Floss and CUT IT OFF. The snake will enjoy not hauling it around. This will in NO WAY effect that animal for the worse. If the snake does not make it, it will NOT be because you removed that. I have done this MANY TIMES. Trust me. That NEEDS to be removed. Once, done, just keep him/her moist on paper towels. It looks like it will be fine, and from the Picture (which I can't say 100 percent) it looks good. Just remove that excess yolk. GOOD LUCK.

As for the Odds. I have had soooo much funky stuff happen that I sometimes don't know what to think. I have had a SUPER MOTLEY pop out from a Motley to Normal. 2 actually.

I have had an albino pop out from a Motley to a Het or Albino where the Motley was NOT HET. This has happened 2 seperate times.

I have had 2 T positives Pop out from a T positive to Motley breeding where the Motley was NOT a Het for T positive.

As for TERRIBLE ODDS. I have seen Het to Het 29 babies with NO ALBINOS. The Mother IS A HET and so was the DAD.

This year I had Motley to Motley. 16 Babies. NO SUPERS. That is like breeding Het to Het Albino and not getting 1 when you are supposed to get 4. If you bred some Ball Pythons that were Possible hets, and you got 16 eggs with NO Albinos, you would Mark on the card that the Snake was NOT A HET. lol

I could go on and on and on. Stuff doesn't ALWAYS pan out.

Call it a gift from above. I'm sure the Mom is a Het. I wouldn't use the same dad again. I would use something 100 percent. Even though, he may be a het. Again, I produced an Albino from a NON het snake. I know others have too. Sometimes you just get those AWESOME Pop ups. Usually one of the parents is a het.

Best of luck.

Jeremy Stone

Hey Jeremy,

Thanks a lot for the info on the albinos/snows. I did have one more question about tying off that excess yolk. About how far should I tie off that excess? An inch from the baby's body? Less? Closer to that big round yellow yolk? Again, I have never had to do this with any of the babies I've had over here, so I'm extremely nervous having to do it to this lil snow. I'm more than happy to do what needs to be done, I just want to know exactly where to tie off the excess and cut it off.

As for the odds game, who knows. I know some basic genetics as this hobby has kinda forced me to learn some just to make sense of some of the morphs I want to produce. But I'm a a frickin' law student, so numbers and statistics are pretty much a whole different world to me.

Anyway, I've got some definite hets to pair up with this litter's mom when she's ready to breed again (probably 2 years from now since this pregnancy took a lot of weight off of her). And I've got another normal het female for the dad next year. So we'll see what comes of this odd outcome in the next year or so.

Again, thank you so much for your input and assistance.

All the best...Jay

Wow. Posts like that make my brain hurt. So much of what seems to be happening is going completely against everything i've ever learned in genetics class. So unless there is a greater deal of parthogensis going on than anyone ever imagined, or people are getting random new mutations I don't know what to think about genetics anymore! lol.
-----
0.1 Het Albino
1.0 DH-Sunglow
1.0 TH-Moonglow

Congrats on your litter and that surprise baby!

I believe you bought the pair of Het Anerys back in 2001 from our very first Ghost litter. That litter was produced by our male Ihle Boo DH Ghost X Anery female. The DH Ghost was produced by Rich Ihle by breeding an original Salmon male bred to his black Anery female named Boo. She (Boo) to my knowledge was a long term import.
The female Anery I used to breed to my male DH Ghost was also an import I picked up from a pet shop. The great thing about this breeding was that the Anery genes in play had yet to be proven out or even compatible.
So there should not be any Albino blood in there anywhere.

Hope that helps a bit.

Here is a very old pic of one of the first Ghost Boas we produced.

-----
BASICALLYBOAS.com
'Specializing in only the Highest Quality True RedTails & Designer Boa Morphs'

Email Us!

Thanks for breaking down the history of the male het anery I bought from you 5 years years ago. I'm very happy to hear that the male has some of Rich Ihle's Boo line in him as well. The momma Anery didn't brown/yellow up too much as she got older, which I believe is due to that Boo bloodline being in thre. Plus, the anerys in the litter look pretty cool also, I'm gonna have a hard time decidin which ones to keep over here.

Well, since you basically ruled out any albino blood in the the het anery that fathered this litter, I am completely stunned and confused as to how a snow boa popped up. I've got a 5 year old albino and two definite het albino males that I'm gonna hopefully use to see what's going on with this anery girl in the upcoming years. Hopefully, I'll get to some type of conclusion eventually. For now, I'm just doing what I can to make sure that little snow pulls through.

Thanks again Mike for the info...Jay

Congrats on that litter, that is awesome that you got a snow. I would cut the left over sac on that little guy. It makes it hard for them to move and sometimes I have noticed blood still runs through and drains them. I would assume if you cut it in a couple days he will be in the pile with all the other babys. Congrats again and I hope he makes it. Vinnie

Congrats!!!!! What a great surprise!

I just wanted to extend my thanks to all of you who gave me your input, advice, and info regarding this recent and puzzling litter of mine.

As per Jeremy's, Craig's, and Vinnie's advice, I tied off that big excess ball of yolk last night with fishing line and cut it off. I sanitized the line and surgical scissors with Nolvasan before using them on the lil snow boa. The snow boa looks very alert, and not lethargic as Jeremy descibed how other albinos with "big belly syndrome" usually act. The lil guy crawls around a bit, but not excessively. I've kept it well sprayed with water and paper towels in the cage he was born in, and I'll likely place him/her in a plastic shoebox tonite since the rest of the litter are already in groups of 3-6 in their own shoeboxes (I separate them individually after they all have their first sheds). I'm still very hesitant to even touch the snow, but I guess I'll have to do it soon so he/she doesn't get too stressed out in that big ole plastic cage.

Please keep your fingers crossed for that lil snow to make it. You all have been awesome and very supportive throughout those whole puzzling event. I sincerely appreciate everything.

All the best...Jay