Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm living in the FL panhandle where the restrictions on keeping venomous reptiles are among the most lax in the country, albiet not quite as liberal as cities in the southern part of the state. Down here I'm told that although it is a state wide standard policy (permits, bond payment, annual dues, and I'm told 1000 hours "hands-on" experience ... though that last bit does not seem to be listed in the statute), municipalities may vary in their specific restrictions; which brings me to my question. As you all well know, when picking up the phone to contact these local authorities you often start off on the wrong foot with "Talk to me about your regulations concerning the private keeping of venomous reptiles." I was wondering if anyone could put me in the right direction regarding how to research these more "local" laws and rights without having to make cold calls uninformed. Ignorance on the subject is why most potential law-abiding keepers are often intentionally mislead by law enforcement.

Yes, it is 1000 hours. I wouldn't say Florida is lax, but rather has the best system in place. It's worth the time to do it if you can find someone to help you. There are people out there that will help. Laws do vary from city to city, and county to county, etc. So you still need to abide by them even with the permit.

All municipalities must abide by the "Freedom of Information Act" and therefore, must willingly provide any information that you need including ordinances pertaining to the keeping of certain types of animals. Personally, I feel that Florida has one of the better systems in place for the keeping of hots as they provide a vehicle to make that happen...and I personally think that the tougher it is to get, the better. In fact, I would even support a nice, hefty annual permit fee (and even make it mandatory to keep necessary antivenin on hand, or, prove that you belong to a recognized antivenom bank).

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>Yes, it is 1000 hours. I wouldn't say Florida is lax, but rather has the best system in place. It's worth the time to do it if you can find someone to help you. There are people out there that will help. Laws do vary from city to city, and county to county, etc. So you still need to abide by them even with the permit.
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

"In fact, I would even support a nice, hefty annual permit fee (and even make it mandatory to keep necessary antivenin on hand, or, prove that you belong to a recognized antivenom bank)."

I'm not against a hefty fee for permits, but would that mean for just the general public, or zoo's and the like, as well?

Most public government agencies are excempt from these fees (my wildlife center falls under the umbrella of a city government). There are many factors but rather than making it a public versus private argument (I am also a private hobbyist), suffice to say, there are many reasons that warrant this excemption.

>>"In fact, I would even support a nice, hefty annual permit fee (and even make it mandatory to keep necessary antivenin on hand, or, prove that you belong to a recognized antivenom bank)."
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>>I'm not against a hefty fee for permits, but would that mean for just the general public, or zoo's and the like, as well?
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

>>In fact, I would even support a nice, hefty annual permit fee

Alright, I'll bite. What exactly do you believe a "hefty" permit fee would accomplish other than taking away money a keeper could spend on other things like improving safety and caring for their animals?

Define "hefty" first, in case we're having a context issue...

Fees are a necessary evil to do business. As long as the fees are being used properly, I never have a problem with them. Keeping venomous herps should be a very expensive hobby between proper caging, set ups, safety protocols, antivenin, etc. An annual permit fee should be a drop in the bucket compared to keeping A/V. Just my .02.

>>>>In fact, I would even support a nice, hefty annual permit fee
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>>Alright, I'll bite. What exactly do you believe a "hefty" permit fee would accomplish other than taking away money a keeper could spend on other things like improving safety and caring for their animals?
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>>Define "hefty" first, in case we're having a context issue...
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

The requirement for the 1000 hours is not written into the statutes. The law grants FWC authority to define additional requirements, and they are written into their regulations. Here's a summary:
myfwc.com/permits/JJRep_Frog_Regs.pdf

Maybe I'm reading your comments wrong, but just to be clear, these regulations apply everywhere in the state, but municipalities may add additional requirements. Most places I've heard of have either none or an outright ban, fairly simple. The tough part will not so much be getting someone to cooperate with your questions, but finding someone who actually knows.

The best thing might be to call FWC and ask them to put you in touch with the local inspector who should know about any local ordinances...I hope. If not, he can probably tell you where to look. Everyone I've dealt with has been very helpful.

If you must contact local government, you might start by just asking who you can talk to about requirements for keeping exotic animals. If you get to someone knowledgable about that, they probably won't have a problem with the subject...

Here in FL, if I am correct, there is an intitial, penal bond fee of a little over a grand and then an annual fee of like $100 or so. Whether or not that is hefty I suppose is relative. Maybe "lax" was a poor word choice. I meant something more like ... "permissive". The structure is one of the best in place like you guys were saying as FL citizens are all in love with their exotics and ripe with wonderful natvie species. Unfortunately, I have had some experience with authorities attempting to misinform. Not suggesting it is always intentional, but simply a matter of not wanting to say "I don't know", so they provide you with information that is in no way correct, but speak as though it is applied law. Seen that all the way from these matters to traffic law. I appreciate the feedback, and have yet to look at that link that was provided, but certainly will. I agree that the tougher the laws, the better as long as they are based on matching keepers to their experience and not on public paranoia. The "1000 hours" rule is my favorite. A lot of people take on hot snakes focusing on how to keep them locked in, not thinking ahead to the "unique" husbandry issues that spring up when caring for these animals. I tell them to think of taking their lives in their hands everytime they scoop out a litter box. Usually hits home. Will stop rambling now. Again, thank you all.

Should've read the link before I posted ... the bond fee is for exhibiton. And again, thanks. You guys are really helpful. Until now, I'd been on my own with all of this. By the way, this is all for C ademanteus so it may yet become a stickier situation. Wish me luck

>>By the way, this is all for C ademanteus so it may yet become a stickier situation.

Not sure what you mean... Nothing special (legally) about C. admanteus in FL. If anything, there has been discussion (but I don't think it's gone very far) of possibly making it EASIER to get a permit for native snakes because there is not the threat of escapes introducing exotic species, which FWC realizes is actually more of a real threat than someone being bitten by an escapee.

They're pretty mild compared to what a lot of keepers here work with. (Echis, Dendroaspis, Ophiophagus, etc...)

I have no doubt you guys hang out with some serious hotties. That was more of a personal thought about housing such a large beast in my already shrinking home. Big snake, much bigger enclosure. Addiction is hell, but hey ... when you've got this much love to give. Some added trivia: Do you know they've stopped rattling around here because only the quiet ones survive. How sad is that? Man makes snake more dangerous .. blame snake .. kill them all. What a world.