Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is the story of big Papa Zeus. Zeus was unique. He was a yellow bodied Orange Bar Ambanja. I have never seen another like him. He was also enormous and the father of many; including my current boy of 24 1/2 inches (Zeus II).

Zeus was one of the nicest Chameleons ever and didn't mind being handled. The 4th time I bred Zeus and Cinnamon, Zeus suffered a hemi-penal prolapse. I tried everything I could think of to get his hemi-pene back in, with no luck so I rushed him to my vet. She was out of town and I saw another vet I had not been to before. He looked at Zeus' prolapse and said "I can get that back in, I've seen much worse." He took Zeus into a back room and came back out with him 30 minutes later and stated. I couldn't get it back in, I had to amputate it with a lazer, it's coterized." I was speechless. I couldn't believe he had amputated Zeus' hemi-pene without even talking to me. I would have chosen to put a rubberband around it and let it dry up and fall off.

Zeus was on several antibiotics over the next couple of months but developed a massive infection in his vent area anyway. We never could erradicate the infection. I would frequently have to take Zeus to my vet and she would would start him on another antibiotic and lance all the pus pockets that had formed around his vent. Zeus was a very friendly Chameleon but during these procedures he would audibly moan and try to bite her. It was heartbreaking to watch.

After one such procedure, Val and I were heading home. Zeus was in a kritter keeper with the top off. He crawled out and into my hands. He began to moan again and I knew then that I couldn't ask him to go thru any more of the painful procedures. I knew that I had to let him go.

Zeus spent the next couple of weeks living the good life, outside in my pear tree as often as possible. Soon the pus pockets reappeared on his vent and I knew Zeus' time had come to an end. I took him back to my vet for the last time and had him mercifully put down. Rest in Peace Big Z. Its been a few years, but not a day goes by that I don't think of you. Mark.

Sad, but great story. I am glad that Zeus has some offspring to keep the line going. Thank goodness for an owner that realizes that the "time" has come.

I have heard of other vets providing treatment or performing procedures prior to authorization. I would turn this person in to the state board!

Thanks for the story.

Kris
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2.1 Black Labs Tucker, Raider and Lacey
1.0 Lepoard Gecko Kumar (Another lost pet RIP and party on with Harold!)
2.0 Horses Smoothie and Rocky
1.0 Husbands (he puts up with me)
1.2 Kids-Trevor (congrats c/o 2006), Logan and Rylie
1.1 Ferrets Tank and Ellie (The fun fuzzies)
1.1 Veiled Chams Squiggy and Pudge (may she RIP)
0.1 Snowflake Cornsnake Lucky

Kris, I didn't have to do that. Although she had worked with him in the past, my vet ask the state to investigate him after some other complaints came up against him. He had performed what was deemed an unnessary surgery on a rare Macaw that later died and he is no longer allowed to practice in New Mexico. I'm sure he landed on his feet somewhere but he may not be working with exotics.

Well, I certainly hope no one else comes across this guy! Just goes to show how careful we all must be...with our pets and ourselves!

Kris
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2.1 Black Labs Tucker, Raider and Lacey
1.0 Lepoard Gecko Kumar (Another lost pet RIP and party on with Harold!)
2.0 Horses Smoothie and Rocky
1.0 Husbands (he puts up with me)
1.2 Kids-Trevor (congrats c/o 2006), Logan and Rylie
1.1 Ferrets Tank and Ellie (The fun fuzzies)
1.1 Veiled Chams Squiggy and Pudge (may she RIP)
0.1 Snowflake Cornsnake Lucky

such a sad story, and what a stunning animal

Oh, such a sad day for you! What a bueaty he was! It's heart wrenching that his repeated infections couldn't be sucessfully treated and all the more sad/angering that you weren't consulted prior to the amputation!

I do have a question, however. I sincerely don't wish to be disrespectful, rude or question your experience. I want to learn only. Why would it have been better to rubber band the exposed hemi-penis than to laser/cauterize? I've never had to deal with that in my own chams (thank the stars!) but I know in other animals (mammals specifically), the rubber-banding technique to achieve docking of ears, tails, testicles etc, is considered inhumane. Even if the end result is the same, is it considered the better choice of the two in cold-blooded animals?
Would the resulting infections have been avoided by simply rubber-banding the exposed area?
Again, I'm only trying to learn in the event I should have to deal with it, not trying to be confrontational!

Although I believe Zeus would have been seriously uncomfortable for a couple of days while he had the rubber band around his hemi-pene. I believe it would have dried up and eventually fallen off and never caused the massive infections that resulted from the amputation. He might have still been able to breed with his other hemi-pene.

Perhaps just doing nothing would have been best, if you couldn't get it back in then just let it dry up and fall off. I probably would have arrived at this point if given a choice.

Thats a very good question! The reason for this is because,when there is no other way for the hemipene to draw back up,it has to be removed. In the wild the animal must just allow it to dry up and fall off with perhaps problems arising from that. In captivity cutting off the blood supply can quickly rid the animal of the now usless organ.Since they have another one(hence the name hemipene-two)they can continue to possibly reproduce. Zeus never had that option. He spent 8 months of needless agony because of an inexperienced Vet. We have complained about him but nothing has come of it so far.

Oh Val and Mark.. you two are such wonderful people and I'm sure Zeus had a great life!! I know its hard to loose a pet and you never stop thinking about them. I'm always calling Rana.."Chloe". Then I have to correct myself. BUT you do have a Son to carry on his name and bring you much pleasure and babies!! Zeus in now among the many gods in the New Mexico night sky, shining his light on you and his family, Hanging around the big dipper and little bear, walking in the shadows of his children and thier kids!!
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TFFF
(Tootie Freakin' Fruity Feenie)

Gee, that really is a sad story. I'm sorry you and he had to got thru it.

I hope someone lasers off that vet's hemipene!
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan and Stan Jr.!
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Lele!!! I'm shocked!! Actually I wished more than that on him (LOL).

I'm sorry to hear about Rosa Leigh. My Rosie is 9 or 10 and still growing. Her fangs are so long that they hang in your hand. Its pretty scary to hold her these days because you think she is biting you when her fangs get caught in your hand.

HA! I am not the little innocent that many of you think, huh? Got ya all fooled

Thanks for words on Rosa Leigh.

My 6 week old side blotched lizard died today under bizarre circumstances very sad. Acoount is on chuckwalla forum
Baby Ana

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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan and Stan Jr.!
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Oh my! I followed your link, that is sickening! That is so horrible. I am so worried about something like that happening. I can't tell you how sorry I am Lele. Valerie.

I saw your post on chuck forum - thank you. It was so bizarre and I blame myself for not having a tighter mesh screen but I really never thought she would (could) jump that high and I had for better UVB. It all happened so fast! Maybe there was another component that i entirely missed but I still take the blame. I am very sad. She was one hatchling out of 5 clutches of about 20 eggs and this had to happen.

It simply sucks. i guess since it was so sudden it will be a little easier to get thru opposed to all your time with Zeus' ongoing problems. That was how it was with Luna. I even steered clear of the forum for a long time after losing her. Glad you have an offspring

thannks again,
lele
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan and Stan Jr.!
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

I'm so sorry to hear about this lele. You must be devastated.

yeah, I am. Even her folks seem a bit down - and they didn't even live in the same tank. OK, maybe I'm projecting my grief on Stan and Ana, but I am still sort of numb. Also wondering what really happened. Guess I'll never know as is so often the case

thanks
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan and Stan Jr.!
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Losing a pet is never fun or easy. He looked like a great chameleon. Great colors almost sambava in a way...

Sorry to hear that sucky news
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Well look at me, what do you see?
Another trophy, a living f****** dead beat
Close your eyes take a step with me
Your gone but its not not too late
Exhibiting Abnormality
Careful what you call reality
But you will always want
You want the day that you shall die
(In Your Face: Children of Bodom)

Wow, he was a nice looking panther. Big too. How old was he when he died?

Thanks all, I got Big Zeus from an importer in Miami. He came in during 2000-2001. I was told he was an Ambanja but I didn't know for certain if he really was an Ambanja until some of his male kids started getting older and showing pure Ambanja colors. I'm not really sure how old he was when he died but he had been in the prime of his life so I think he wasn't much more than two.

There were several males in Zeus' shipment that were screamers but even among them, Zeus was unique. There were some other yellow bodied Ambanjas but Zeus had Orange bars and I had never seen another one like him, then or now. Dr. Ivan Alphonso purchased many of the purple bar ones. Among those, "Kraken" was a spectacular Chameleon but he was not able to adjust to captivity and later had to be put down. Another really sad story. I've never really gotten over the loss of Zeus and Dr. Alphonso felt the same way about "Kraken". It is so hard to lose such a wonderful creature.

Dr. Alphonso also owned some of the nicest Ambilobes to ever come to the United States. Among them "Anubis" and "Chimera".

Here is a picture of little (LOL) Zeus at about 6 months.

We had an ambanja (our only pardalis) a decade or so back. We got him, and he was 100% blue green. Just specks of red by his eye. After a few months, he looked just like that pic of Zues, with bright blue and red bars. After a few more months, SOILD red, like I've never seen before. Seasonal color change, apparantly.

Gotta let me know if you have any of those babies due soon (or in the next year!)- you know I've got a thing for giant chameleons (melleri, big calyptratus, etc!).

Basically, I want a panther that looks like THAT, and has some good length too. I'm in no shape to get a panther( moving this month!), but when I have the space, that's what I want.

I think they pulled my reply to you because it was too much like an ad or even was an ad. I never knew you had a Panther Chameleon. I won't have any Ambanjas for quite some time (big or otherwise). I haven't been able to find a suitable mate for Zeus II. I've purchased lots of young females only to raise them up and find out they don't want to mate. I have a couple more youngs girls coming along now, we'll see what happens. How are the Veiled Eggs doing?

I'm so sorry about your BIG beautiful gentle guy , so very sad, , no words, just understand your loss. So glad to hear he has left many offspring to carry on thats a happy thing to think about.

He sure is pretty!
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PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

Thanks Eve. I know you've been there. It's an event that none of us ever want.

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. No matter how many times it happens, its never easy losing one of our pets....but with some we suffer the loss more than with others.

Sorry for your loss It's never easy.
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Michele