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In reference to the previous "sssssplat"

boaphile Aug 20, 2006 09:20 PM

I am not sure about all the reasons for fluctuations in the Ball Market but part of it certainly is the fact that they are one of the most prolific boids. Don't like the Ball Market? Motley Boas were $7000 each five or six years ago. Today they are $5000 - $6500. This due to the fact that Boas, contrary to popular propaganda, are no where near as prolific as Ball Pythons are. Come on over into the exciting world of Boa Constrictors! The water is just right and there is plenty of room!

Jeff Ronne
The Boaphile

Replies (18)

vcaruso15 Aug 20, 2006 09:29 PM

Great Post Jeff!!! I think another reason that prices stay more stable in boas is selective breeding. There is alot of room for improvment on boas morphs included just by selective breeding making it easier to get top dollar for your animals if they are top quailty.

gabonica2977 Aug 20, 2006 09:56 PM

correct me if im wrong, but dont boas produce up to forty young a year. even with much luck and egg incubation skills you cant get that many ball babies in four years. again maybe im wrong and thought that boas produce large litters.

bsr inc Aug 20, 2006 10:09 PM

yes-but boas are much harder to breed and even harder again to breed every year, but dont think for a second that the boa market has not been affected by pricing going down as in the balls. Its all relative and both snakes, are the definate stars of our industry. I had a harder time selling albinos this year than the previous years, but they still sold well. We sold alot of boas at the daytona show, more than i thought we would, so that is a good thing--sorry for all the posting, but board while driving home from daytona--back to work tommorow-i actually bought 9 albino boa yearling at the end of the show, and some are really spectacular and red-Ben Siegel

mpuexotics Aug 21, 2006 05:20 AM

Hey Ben
You forgot to mention.The boas take up 10x the room as ball pythons and feed.Hell I can put 10 adult balls in the space 1 adult boa takes up.As far as large litters.alot of boas give 10 to 20 babies especially island dwafts.So there is plenty of room on the boa side I just hope the fighting doesn't come with it.Don't see the same post on boa forums .I think thats because their BIGGER LOL
Thanks Mike
PS who saw the action at ball python talk.
Lets get an octagon next year LOL

vcaruso15 Aug 21, 2006 08:31 AM

Nice Sounds like you had a pretty good show. Congrats

ChrisGilbert Aug 20, 2006 10:11 PM

boas are not as prolific, how is this? Well, boas don't breed like ball pythons. One male can't breed 10-20 females. (Yes ball python breeders have bred one male to that many females). Second, boas are not as easy to breed, a lot of things can happen. Boas can go full term with a load of slugs, the majority of attempted breedings with boas are failures completely or partially. Many times litters are small, just because they can be large doesn't mean they are.
Next you have to look at age of maturity. Ball Python males can breed at 6 months old, and females at 18 months (doesn't mean all do, but some). Meanwhile boas have to be 18 months to 3 years old for males, and 3-5 years old for females. This longer time to reach maturity means a lot more work on the breeders part then with Ball Pythons.

A lot of boa morphs have remained stable for MANY years, and if they have dropped it is minimal, some have even gone up in value. Bloods were $3500 in 2004 this year they are $7500. Sharp Albinos also went up, while Kahls only dropped a few hundred over the same time, and for some breeders they are still getting the old prices.

Ball Pythons are pretty straight forward in results, but boas have a lot of variety. Things like Hypos, Jungles, Albinos, and the combinations therein have a wide range of value. This stems from selective breeding. If you want a Kahl Albino, nothing special plain albino you can probably find one fro a small breeder for $700, and $1000 from a larger breeder. Now the same mutation from a high contrast bloodline will go for $1500. Sunglows (Kahl) range from $3000-$8000. Hypos and Jungles also have a wide range. The possibility for selective breeding, and the work that goes behind it keeps large demand and a high market value for the animals. I believe on breeder had Kahl Albinos that sold this year for over $2000.

So Boas can have 40 babies in a litter, not typical, but it happens. (One breeder had over 70 in a litter) However if a Ball Python male breeds with 10 females and each produces an average 5 eggs you have 50. I know of some breeders that bred one co-dominant or dominant morph male to 15 or more females produceing 50 of the morph in a year. On the boa side a breeder MIGHT get a male to breed two females, and then everything still has to go well with gestation, etc.

I hope this helps to see where Jeff is coming from, he is right.

garweft Aug 21, 2006 11:33 AM

Anyone with a thermostat and a timer can breed balls. Plus one male will breed 3-5 females no problem. It is a lot harder to breed boas consistantly. Also males will rarely breed more than 1 female. If multiple females are breed then the number of slugs in the females will increase to a crazy amount. Also 40 offspring is very rare, average numbers are closer to 12-18.

boaphile Aug 21, 2006 01:03 PM

That is why Balls are far more prolific than Boas. Everyone that gets into Balls are going to breed them. Not so with Boas. Effort plus know how plus effort plus good caging plus effort equals success, but you do have to have numbers to make it work. That's why I say, "be one of the few, the proud, the Boa breeders!"

jeff favelle Aug 21, 2006 07:00 PM

Had these born 2 days ago. Albino x 100% het. 15 albinos, 3 hets!! Pretty sweey odds!

ChrisGilbert Aug 20, 2006 10:14 PM

and all too true. Boas typically maintain value well, if not they drop slowly or actually jump in price. I have very rarely seen Ball Pythons rise, while Blood boas for example have more than doubled since 2004.

CrazyBoidGuy Aug 20, 2006 10:30 PM

Seems like you're building a false sense of hope there.. I've seen public ads in the past on a classifieds site for Motleys that were selling for $3500.00. As a matter of fact, I just took a peak and it was just reposted. Doesn't look that guy can give them away.. Balls have the potential of producing more offspring, it just takes more females.. One sexually mature, larger male can breed 10 females with ease.. With small clutches, that's 40 kiddies!! You're lucky to breed a male boa to 2 females in one year though, lucky to breed a male boa to 1 female, actually. Here is one major lesson, do NOT do this unless you PLAN on LOSING money.. IF you turn a profit, you will be happy.

bpconnection Aug 21, 2006 01:04 AM

About 2 weeks ago, I was hanging out in my local pet shop. They had a new "colombian redtail" in, and asked if I could pop it to find the sex for them. I did, and messed around with it for a while. It was so COOL! I hadn't really spent too much time with boas before, other than holding one that's a buddy's of mine.

I spent last week reading up a good bit on boas, and all I can say is I'm falling in love! I'm looking to pick up a few females to start raising up so that I can breed them down the line...

This has nothing to do with the $$$...they're just cool!
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Jeremy Conrad
bpConnection
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...Can't...stop...must...get...more...balls...

midnightherps Aug 21, 2006 09:49 PM

Im excited for your excitement. Truly I am. So dont take this the wrong way........just wait till you become so excited that you finaly decide to drop a few hundred or a few THOUSAND dollars (that you dont have) on a cool morph because the normals just arent doing it for you anymore.......then youll understand why these crazy threads get started.

Sure people keep saying "do it for the love of the animal not the $$$" but when it all boils down to it the only people that will truly succeed with that attitude alone (IMO) are the ones who HAVE THE MONEY TO PLAY WITH FROM THE BEGINNING THAT ARENT CONCERNED ABOUT a RETURN BECAUSE THERES NO "NEED" FOR IT IN THERE LIFE.
A need for a return is eliminated and therefor it becomes strictly pleasure for those persons. Unfortunately thats not the case for the vast majority of us in this game. Even though many of us are hard working honest individuals that do love the animals, the hard truth is that unless we have an ubundance of money to live comfortably regaurdless of our investments in snakes, there is that desire for an increase. Ultimately it is a drive whether we want to admit it or not even though the majority are probably still having tons of fun although broke. I am.

I love my animals so much that I hope I never have to get rid of them for any reason. That doesnt change the fact that if I cant make anything on them (again...to at least break even) I will incure a degree of stress for the welfare of my finanial responsibilities. Why?? Because I dont have the money to begin with. Thats why its an investment for most of us.

IMO...if you have the money to begin with then you cant realy lose it so theres no stress and no real financial drive.

So all in all it is a gamble. But we all take risks because without risk taking life would be boring.

Just having fun with this so dont anybody misinterpret my tone.

TBurns Aug 22, 2006 07:46 AM

.

jmartin104 Aug 21, 2006 06:26 AM

I used to keep boas. They take up way more space than BPs. It's all about supply and demand. For each boa I housed, I could keep 5 or more BPs. Do the math at breeding season and you can see why there would be more breedings with BPs. I the "puppy" mills would slow down...
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Oz Aug 21, 2006 07:02 AM

What are you doing on the Dark Side???? The Ball Market is as strong as ever! And the potential morph combos far exceed that of the boas! They are both cool animals to work with... but Balls RULE.

By the way, I saw Motleys at 4k... not 5-7k at Daytona, oh noooo the Boa Market is Crashing!!!! Pete has produced a kazzilion Billion Boas... oh nooooo.

LOL, Balls are prolific... Boas are not so prolific... unless you like sweet potatoes!

There are good and bad aspects of both animals, but be carefull who you lure over to the Boa Market... lol.

Your Long Lost Brother,
Oz

Missed You This Year Man
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OZZYBOIDS

boaphile Aug 21, 2006 10:21 AM

Hey Oz! What ever happened to the "Dirty Bird"!? Did you ever breed that animal? I made some really red Hypos in 2003 that reminded me of that animal and called them "Scarlet Hypos"! I was sick thinking about not owning that Boa for years until I had a mess of them born just like that.

Not to worry Mr. Oz. I am NOT going to the dark side. Just thought I'd pop in quick to plant the Boa seed if you will. It wouldn't hurt my feeling to have more of that speculative cash flowing over here into the Boa world. There are not nearly so many combinations available for us Boa guys though. Our success must be more strongly based upon effort and doing the right selective breedings. Not so much on just having a bunch of money to invest. Not that there is anything wrong with money mind you. I like it a lot. In fact I actually need some of it.

Come on back Mr. Oz! A few Ball Python folks are quietly sneaking a few Boas into their collections. You have the distinct advantage over many of them having already had a few babies and some sweet potatoes too. I'll bet you I had more sweet potatoes this year than you did! LOL But then, I had quite a few gray wiggly kids too... The Boas still love you Oz and are beckoning you to come back and dabble a little bit...

Jeff

jyohe Aug 21, 2006 05:26 PM

make me laugh........

Hi Jeffrey,,......

splaaaat was just about one thing..one price....one idea.......

boas breed pretty good too.....they just get too darn big and all........

....have fun..........

Jeffrey
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................................................it's a buyer's market......
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