Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well here is the dish, I am in by no ways new to reptiles, i have had many in my time, but I have only had one snake way back in the day. Now i am thinking of getting a LEUCISTIC TEXAS RATSNAKE!! I do not know too much about the animal except that its care is similar to a corn snake, and that sometimes they have a fiesty temper! Some of my questions are as follow:

1) whats the average size they get? do males or females get bigger?

2) what is the proper cage size for a hatchling? adult?

3) I live in az, so i assume a undertank heater will be sufficent?

4) how should i feed it? 2-3 times a week?

5) lastly can someone point me in the direction of a good caresheet?

Thank you for your time and help.
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---> ROBERT

I Fear Two things in Life.GOD and MY WIFE!!

1) whats the average size they get? do males or females get bigger?

3 1/2- 6 feet long, average being 4-5 feet...and I think the males get larger...but don't quote me on that.

2) what is the proper cage size for a hatchling? adult?

A hatchling would do just fine in a 10 gallon. Mine is almost a year old now, and still quite comfortable in his (allthough I'll still be upgrading him in a couple months time). As for an adult, I would think AT LEAST a 30 gallon?

3) I live in az, so i assume a undertank heater will be sufficent?

I would think so. They don't need UV.

4) how should i feed it? 2-3 times a week?

2-3 times a week is far too much. The snake should be fed one appropriatly sized food item approx. once a week.

5) lastly can someone point me in the direction of a good caresheet?

You can do searches for "ratsnakes" or "Texas ratsnakes"...or even cornsnakes really.

Leucys are great. Mine does a great little rattlesnake impression durring feeding and sometimes when being taken out, but calms down instantly when in hand, and has never once so much as struck. He's a wonderful little snake (or not so litte...he's growing like a weed!)

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- JENN ROSE -
www.jennrose.com

0.1.0 classic corn~ "Pumpkin"
1.0.0 leucistic texas ratsnake~ "Worm"

By no means am I a snake expert, but I do have a female 4 1/2 foot named Bailey.

She is a very AWARE snake, but has never struck, or even made me nervous, she is a VERY docile snake, I too have wondered about what people say about them being feisty. She is #1 in my snake collection and by far the sweetest snake I own.

I too live in AZ and have found that an under the tank eater works just fine. I don't know if these snakes typically eat like hogs, but mine does, hard to resist the urge to feed more than I should!

Anyways, go for it! Good luck!

I love our 3 year old Oogie! She is awesome, although she will not eat f/t and is a tad bit flighty. She is in a 32 quart rack tub, and she eats small rats weekly. Make sure you pick a hatchling wisely, I have seen a lot of bug eyed babies out there!
She never attempted to strike at me (as an adult ) until today...I didn't realize taking her outside for a photo shoot would send her into a frenzy...she puffed herself out...hissed and struck like crazy (I don't think she would have latched on, but I was still shaky) She is just about 6 feet long, and will likely grow another foot and increase her girth a bit. Texas rat snakes are great snakes, but be advised, they are not ball pythons or corn snakes, they are always going to be a bit flighty, and they have an attitude. I would not say that they are aggressive, but they do have more of a "nervous" nature. We got ours from Ben Seigal when she was the size of a large night crawler! Here are some pics from our photo shoot!



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8.15 Normal ball pythons
2.0 Pastel ball pythons
1.0 Plains Garter
0.1 Normal Kenyan Sand Boa
1.1 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Mid-Baja Rosy Boa
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.2 Dumeril's Boa
-----My list is too long, so I'll stop here!
*Amy*

Fantastic looking snake, I have a baby male . Its funny the only times I have been bit by snakes (small harmless snakes) had natural sunlight involved .

For some reason, direct sunlight makes most snakes VERY uncomfortable.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

As we say in Missouri, "I ain't goin back to Missouri!"

Posted by: phiber_optikx at Wed Aug 23 01:37:29 2006 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

For some reason, direct sunlight makes most snakes VERY uncomfortable.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

As we say in Missouri, "I ain't goin back to Missouri!"

Ofcourse that makes perfect sense but I never thought of that lol. It has been by snakes in outside markets in Asia where I have been bitten (little harmless arboreals) and my own here in the states all being held in the sun for pics or placed on the lawn for a fast pic in sunny day .

I also want to mention that research has shown that in the wild Texas Rat snakes are becoming more and more aboreal. Oogie used to live in a 40 gallon tall custom built cage and she loved to be up in the branches! Currently, she is in a rack, because we moved and have 2 clutches of balls and large dumeril cages to accomidate, but if you can offer some height to your set up I think your (future) snake would be more comfortable
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8.15 Normal ball pythons
2.0 Pastel ball pythons
1.0 Plains Garter
0.1 Normal Kenyan Sand Boa
1.1 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Mid-Baja Rosy Boa
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.2 Dumeril's Boa
-----My list is too long, so I'll stop here!
*Amy*

Thank you all for your input. One last question. I have found some in the classifieds and the ones that I am looking at are fed live pinks atm, how hard would it be to switch it to f/t pinks? I just can't believe how beautifull these snakes look! they look like ivory! thanks again
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---> ROBERT

I Fear Two things in Life.GOD and MY WIFE!!

I know there are texas rats out there that are picky, but for the most part, I don't think you should have any problem at all. It seams that most corns and other american ratsnakes aren't super picky eaters (the majority at least). Worm was on live pinks when I got him, and I gave him a f/t pink on his first feeding with me and he devoured it. He's never refused a meal...even when blue.

I actually purchased mine off of a kingsnake.com ad. Just be sure to ask questions. I contacted many people who had them for sale asking about temperment and feeding habits until I found the perfect snake.

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**************************************
- JENN ROSE -
www.jennrose.com

0.1.0 classic corn~ "Pumpkin"
1.0.0 leucistic texas ratsnake~ "Worm"

yeah I was just wondering how difficult it was to switch from live to f/t. Hopefully it won't be a problem! I am probally going to purchase mine from Ben Seigal, he has some beautiful animals! plus I have bought from him before! Is the temperament in males and females different? I know with some animals males tend to be more relaxed and vice versa. Thanx again for the comments
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---> ROBERT

I Fear Two things in Life.GOD and MY WIFE!!

Thanks!

As far as I know there isn't a personality difference between males and females. But maybe someone else has had different experiences here?
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**************************************
- JENN ROSE -
www.jennrose.com

0.1.0 classic corn~ "Pumpkin"
1.0.0 leucistic texas ratsnake~ "Worm"

That is funny! My iguana used to become very difficult when brought into natural sunlight! None of my other 20 some snakes care about sunlight though and I typically take pics outside because they turn out much nicer! Than again all of my other snakes minus a garter are boids.
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8.15 Normal ball pythons
2.0 Pastel ball pythons
1.0 Plains Garter
0.1 Normal Kenyan Sand Boa
1.1 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Mid-Baja Rosy Boa
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.2 Dumeril's Boa
-----My list is too long, so I'll stop here!
*Amy*

Why do you need undertank heater? I live in Az (chandler) too, It is hot enough in the summer and they are "asleep" in the winter.
I have Leucistic Texas ratsnake, they do fine without any extra heat.
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1.2 Albino Sonoran Gopher,
2.3 W.C Okeetee Corn,
1.1 Abbt line Okeetee Corn,
1.2 W.C Miami Phase Corn
1.1 Sinaloan Milk,
1.0 Orange Pueblian Milk,
1.1 W.C Mexican Black King
1.0 W.C Cal King,
0.1 Durango Mountain King
1.0 Desert King,
1.2 Bearded Dragon
45 Tanks full with African Cichlids.
Many Mice, Rats and feeder Roaches

Thats what I was wondering? do I? my house stays about 79-80 during the summer and around 73-75 in the winter. so do you all think a under tank heater should be used? also does a male or female get bigger? thank you all for all the info, its helping me out alot! keep it coming!!
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---> ROBERT

I Fear Two things in Life.GOD and MY WIFE!!

I don't think you need more heat, you can always get one later.
Heat pad will dry the air and the bedding.

All you need is a secure tank, your choice of bedding (Aspen), fresh water and a lot of love. (i forgot a nice understanding wife LOL).

I don't know if the male of the female get bigger, again it is depend how do you feed him/her, The gene's and most of the time luck. (I’m sure I’ll get "hate mail" for this reply).

Robert, you can get the snake on line, maybe check the local pet stores in the area first, i had great luck finding great animals here locally. I don't think I can "advertise" which one I’m talking about here on the forum. E mail me and I’ll be more then happy to help you. The good thing about get it localy is that you can see what you get and be able to get "live support" for the rest of the snake life. (BTW, I don't work for any of these stores)

I know, I need pictures.

Gai.
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1.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher,
2.1 Leucistic Texas ratsnake
0.1 het leucistic Rusty ratsnake
2.3 W.C Okeetee Corn,
1.1 Abbt line Okeetee Corn,
1.2 W.C Miami Phase Corn
1.1 Sinaloan Milk,
1.0 Orange Pueblian Milk,
1.1 W.C Mexican Black King
1.0 W.C Cal King,
0.1 Durango Mountain King
1.0 Desert King,
1.2 Bearded Dragon
45 Tanks full with African Cichlids.
Many Mice, Rats and feeder Roaches

You wouldn't need uth in the summer. You could probably go either way in the winter. A uth might be appreciated, but without one the snake would probably do OK with smaller meals a little less often. That's assuming you are not brumating, in which case the point is moot.

Before I put all my snakes in a room where I control the temps, I kept mine at room temps and most of my N. Am Ratsnakes (including my leucistic tx) actually did OK at room temps in the low 70's during the winter. I gave babies a uth, but the larger ones were fine. Like I said, they gravitated towards smaller meals, less often in the winter...But some seem to do that when the days get shorter anyway. Good luck. Duffy

since i plan for this snake to be a display snake, i was thinking of using blk sand to bring out the white in the snake. my question is, is sand a no no? or is it ok? any suggestions are appreciated.
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---> ROBERT

I Fear Two things in Life.GOD and MY WIFE!!

I wouldn't use sand, I have heard of a few beardies get impacted on calci sand. It is also hard to clean. IMO, use aspen, critter country, newspaper or paper towel.
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---------
8.15 Normal ball pythons
2.0 Pastel ball pythons
1.0 Plains Garter
0.1 Normal Kenyan Sand Boa
1.1 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Mid-Baja Rosy Boa
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.2 Dumeril's Boa
-----My list is too long, so I'll stop here!
*Amy*

I use "live substrate" you can get the info from the book "The art of keeping snakes" by Philippe de Vosjoli.(look at page 195) it is dark in color and do not require too much maintenance. working great in the Arizona dry air.
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1.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher,
2.1 Leucistic Texas ratsnake
0.1 het leucistic Rusty ratsnake
2.3 W.C Okeetee Corn,
1.1 Abbt line Okeetee Corn,
1.2 W.C Miami Phase Corn
1.1 Sinaloan Milk,
1.0 Orange Pueblian Milk,
1.1 W.C Mexican Black King
1.0 W.C Cal King,
0.1 Durango Mountain King
1.0 Desert King,
1.2 Bearded Dragon
45 Tanks full with African Cichlids.
Many Mice, Rats and feeder Roaches

Posted by: robertIII at Thu Aug 24 09:48:15 2006 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

since i plan for this snake to be a display snake, i was thinking of using blk sand to bring out the white in the snake. my question is, is sand a no no? or is it ok? any suggestions are appreciated.
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---> ROBERT

I Fear Two things in Life.GOD and MY WIFE!!

If you want black what about soil without any chemicals,fertilizer,etc that has to be harmless as just soil.
They sell large bags cheap in those huge garden/home repair places.
That does look nice black enclosure background black substrate tree branches (I dont think they come in black lol)and the white snake climbing the branches

Posted by: RobertIII at Wed Aug 23 05:07:22 2006 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

Thats what I was wondering? do I? my house stays about 79-80 during the summer and around 73-75 in the winter. so do you all think a under tank heater should be used? also does a male or female get bigger? thank you all for all the info, its helping me out alot! keep it coming!!
-----
---> ROBERT

I Fear Two things in Life.GOD and MY WIFE!!

I would use an UTH if temps in 70s . They digest food that much better and they will seek it out after eating.
I love Cobra UTH but either way you should worse case you unplug it if you think its a waste but you will use it after he/she eats . Mid 70s is unnaturally to cool for active,eating snakes (a few types okay but not many).
Again you can just unplug it and or use it only after he/she eats for a few days or use it if they arent eating as bit to cool.

The problem with the UTH is that it dries the air and the substrate. If you use soil it will be too dry habitat for the snake. We live in AZ and it is too dry anyway (especially in an A/C'ed house).
I have many snakes as you can see in my signature. I do not use any heater they all doing great (eating & breeding).

Regular soils will smell real bad real quick. In a display tank "live soil" makes maintenance easy.
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1.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher,
2.1 Leucistic Texas ratsnake
0.1 het leucistic Rusty ratsnake
2.3 W.C Okeetee Corn,
1.1 Abbt line Okeetee Corn,
1.2 W.C Miami Phase Corn
1.1 Sinaloan Milk,
1.0 Orange Pueblian Milk,
1.1 W.C Mexican Black King
1.0 W.C Cal King,
0.1 Durango Mountain King
1.0 Desert King,
1.2 Bearded Dragon
45 Tanks full with African Cichlids.
Many Mice, Rats and feeder Roaches

I never heard of live soil I have heard of live sand for reef tanks (I have Berlin system no sand).
I do know of Vosjoli as very popular with natural type set ups .

I have snakes that require it warmer like an Indigo but no expert on snakes .

In your collection I imagine you see your Pueblan the least ,hides the most ?

Thanks

Actually not, He is a show freek. he like to stay above his hide most of the time. he also eat like a pig (or like MBK LOL).

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1.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher,
2.1 Leucistic Texas ratsnake
0.1 het leucistic Rusty ratsnake
2.3 W.C Okeetee Corn,
1.1 Abbt line Okeetee Corn,
1.2 W.C Miami Phase Corn
1.1 Sinaloan Milk,
1.0 Orange Pueblian Milk,
1.1 W.C Mexican Black King
1.0 W.C Cal King,
0.1 Durango Mountain King
1.0 Desert King,
1.2 Bearded Dragon
45 Tanks full with African Cichlids.
Many Mice, Rats and feeder Roaches

what is the live soil that you are talking about? I don't have the book you suggested. could you post a pic of it? thnx
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---> ROBERT

I Fear Two things in Life.GOD and MY WIFE!!

I have “live soil" under the gopher snake, you can make it darker if you wish.
It is like in a fish tank, the bacteria in the soil help remove the ammonia and urine smell.
I changed all my snake cages to the "live soil" about 6 month ago. I can see great improvement in feeding and shedding since then. I cut many hours of cleaning too.

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1.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher,
2.1 Leucistic Texas ratsnake
0.1 het leucistic Rusty ratsnake
2.3 W.C Okeetee Corn,
1.1 Abbt line Okeetee Corn,
1.2 W.C Miami Phase Corn
1.1 Sinaloan Milk,
1.0 Orange Pueblian Milk,
1.1 W.C Mexican Black King
1.0 W.C Cal King,
0.1 Durango Mountain King
1.0 Desert King,
1.2 Bearded Dragon
45 Tanks full with African Cichlids.
Many Mice, Rats and feeder Roaches

Robert, i e mailed you 2 days ago but your e mail bounced back to me. Please e mail me with a good e mail address.
Thanks,
Gai.
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1.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher,
2.1 Leucistic Texas ratsnake
0.1 het leucistic Rusty ratsnake
2.3 W.C Okeetee Corn,
1.1 Abbt line Okeetee Corn,
1.2 W.C Miami Phase Corn
1.1 Sinaloan Milk,
1.0 Orange Pueblian Milk,
1.1 W.C Mexican Black King
1.0 W.C Cal King,
0.1 Durango Mountain King
1.0 Desert King,
1.2 Bearded Dragon
45 Tanks full with African Cichlids.
Many Mice, Rats and feeder Roaches

Posted by: gr8snake at Thu Aug 24 20:39:05 2006 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

Actually not, He is a show freek. he like to stay above his hide most of the time. he also eat like a pig (or like MBK LOL).

Oh thats nice I think you got lucky I was looking into one and seems most hide 24/7 . Great looking but the hiding so much for me is a draw back .
I still might since yours doesnt hide 24/7 so going to keep asking see what the general tempermeant is.

This type of ratsnake tops out at about 6 feet. I have been caring for one for the past year and it is very aggressive. I'm sure with more frequent handling it would calm down. It is a great eater. An undertank heater would be sufficient for heating for your location.
They are very beautiful snakes and make for an excellent display animal.

1) whats the average size they get? do males or females get bigger?

I've heard that they can grow anywhere from 5-7 feet long. My Mac will probably be "smallish" because he's been so finicky about eating. He's eating well CURRENTLY, but has been so cotton-picking difficult to get on a regular schedule.

2) what is the proper cage size for a hatchling? adult?

Mac is currently in a 10 gallon tank and he's VERY comfortable now. I think that because he's so shy, he appreciates the smaller quarters. I'll move him up to a 20 gallon when he's over 2 feet long and eating regularly.

3) I live in az, so i assume a undertank heater will be sufficent?

I live in Phoenix, but still use an UTH because I was always told to provide the "thermal gradient" of 75 degrees on the lower end and 85-90 on the higher end. LOL. During the winter, even with room temps at a CONSTANT 75 and the UTH, Mac went off his food. He was just a hatchling and seemed far too small to brumate (he still seems kinda small to brumate which has me worried about this winter).

4) how should i feed it? 2-3 times a week?

I used to try to feed Mac in a separate tank, but as discussed, he was so very difficult. So I asked a herp expert at one of the local Reptile Centers for help and he suggested to feed him in his own tank on a plate (to prevent substrate ingestion). He's been eating fine since then (I also put dark paper on 3 sides of his tank and put something removable on the front so that he doesn't get disturbed every time someone walks by). He's finally growing and looking good, but I'm still worried about this winter. LOL.

5) lastly can someone point me in the direction of a good caresheet?

Sorry, can't help you there... I've found that trying what is offered here on KS.com and at the local Reptile Centers has been very helpful for me.

I've included an OLD pic of Mac. He's just a little bigger now that back then.

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4 Corns - Aphrodite (Normal), Freya (Normal), Peyton (Amel), and Kal-El (Lavender)
2 Florida Kings - Thor (Axanthic Brooksi) & Lilith (Normal)
1 Leucistic Texas Rat Snake - MacLeod
1 Taiwan Beauty Snake - Mushu
1 W/C Banded Cal. King - Meridian