Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know this is a stupid question, but I'd just like to ask it for future reference so I don't go and do something really stupid. Can a leopard tort go in with a red foot, in outdoor enlocsures? I realized the difference in habitat, however its outside sso I can't change the weather or humidity. Relativly the same size of course, reccomend seperation when the leopard gets bigger?
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3 Whites Treefrogs (Gleep, Gloop, Gazoo)
1 Bearded Dragon (Butterfinger)
1 Mali Uromastyx (Groucho)
1 Argentine Horned Frog (Mcfatfat)
1 Togo Starburst Tarantula
1 Blue Cobalt Tarantula
1 Rosehair Tarantula
1 African Spitting Scorpion
1 Betta Splendins
1 Spectacled Amazon (Indiana Jones)
8 Button Quail (I promise they all have names)
1 Spaztic black kitty (Nikkita)
1 Baby Hairless rat (looking for a name)
3 WOW char (they are pets too.)
Even us girls can like slimey scaley and squishy things.

I live in connecticut and have redfoots and leopards in seperate enclosures indoors but they do share their outdoor enclosure. They are the same relative size. I originally set it up with one side more sand and dryer and the other more mulch and damp and had a divider. But as you say the temp and humidity is the same due to the weather. So I eventually took out the divider. Amazing they both seem to pick their side to settle down in but roam the entire enclosure. I only feed foods that both can eat in the outside but yet when I put stuff like melon in only the redfoots will eat it. If its a particulary humid day I leave the leopards indoors or if its very dry I hose down the redfoot side. I know many of the experts frown on this but seems to work out okay.

WOW I really like your setup! LOL Thank you. I'm just gonna post on TT forums from now on see you there!
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3 Whites Treefrogs (Gleep, Gloop, Gazoo)
1 Bearded Dragon (Butterfinger)
1 Mali Uromastyx (Groucho)
1 Argentine Horned Frog (Mcfatfat)
1 Togo Starburst Tarantula
1 Blue Cobalt Tarantula
1 Rosehair Tarantula
1 African Spitting Scorpion
1 Betta Splendins
1 Spectacled Amazon (Indiana Jones)
8 Button Quail (I promise they all have names)
1 Spaztic black kitty (Nikkita)
1 Baby Hairless rat (looking for a name)
3 WOW char (they are pets too.)
Even us girls can like slimey scaley and squishy things.

Hi you cant or should not house 2 seperate species together. Red foots need it more humid and leos. need it more dry. I understand you cant change the humidity in the air, or the heat. But you can raise humidity, use moist soil on the red foot and sand soil mix for the leo.

Also gets more complicated, it comes down to red footed torts. are from south america, leos. from africa. They have different diseases, and different immune system, its fairly complicated to explain, but basicly your leo. or redfoot wont have a immune system for potetial disease.I would really really not put them together, Leos. are not hardy and will contract diseases from other tortoise very easy, i know people who had torts. for years, and lost it all because they let 2 species together.

I would just build 2 sepearte enclosures, and dont risk it.

You have a very good point. However if captive bred and kept outside won't they be suseptable to all diseases? And if captive bred and not ever introduced to the disease, won't the torts never have an immunity to a disease anyway? I won't chance it tho
Thanks.
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3 Whites Treefrogs (Gleep, Gloop, Gazoo)
1 Bearded Dragon (Butterfinger)
1 Mali Uromastyx (Groucho)
1 Argentine Horned Frog (Mcfatfat)
1 Togo Starburst Tarantula
1 Blue Cobalt Tarantula
1 Rosehair Tarantula
1 African Spitting Scorpion
1 Betta Splendins
1 Spectacled Amazon (Indiana Jones)
8 Button Quail (I promise they all have names)
1 Spaztic black kitty (Nikkita)
1 Baby Hairless rat (looking for a name)
3 WOW char (they are pets too.)
Even us girls can like slimey scaley and squishy things.

I realize that the majority of tortoise keepers agree with your position but their are some inherant flaws in it. First if they are captive bred they would not have diseases from different parts of the world. Second I have asked on this and other forums for a specific germ that one may harbor that the other can not tolerate and I have never been told anything specific. Just the general rule. Third the minute you touch your tort you are mixing species from two different parts of the world ! People own dogs and cats, in the same house without problems. Of course quarentine of new torts is important, size and food requirements are important as well as habitat. I have kept an asian mt.tort with redfoots. Same food, same habitat. Both captive bred. I will close with saying what you say is the typical response but I think it may be open to question. Tom

I have a redfoot and a Leo. I keep them, their bowels, wastes and enclosures separated ALL THE TIME! Id just be so sad if any of them got sick!

Hey Tom,

I also agree with you on all the points, but red footed and leos. dont have the same care. Its very possible that you can house them together, but i always say why chance it. Also a Mt. tortoise and a redfooted tort. have relativly same care, but Mt. tortoises like it cooler more in the 60F range, and high humidity, and red footed torts. like it a lot warmer, again there are different opinions, i dont think anyone is right or wrong, but i just say why take the risk.

Maybe I wasn't clear. They have seperate indoor setups (leopards and Redfoots). Quite different requirements. It was a question about outside enclosure. And since I can't control the outside temp or humidity I do put them together in an enclosure or on the lawn. The enclosure has two choices, damp much and plenty of vegetation on one side and sand and dryer toward the other end. They seem to choose sides. Indoors, differnt substrates, different temps, different lighting, different food. I agree with everyone that different species require different things but I am just curious for specific information regarding the "different" pathogens that kill one and not the other. I can see them getting colonized if they came from differnt countries but captive bred probably have similar colonization.

Talking to a breeder who breeds both, he informed me most contamination illnesses are the result of when one species eats the poop of another species. This is normal, like a dog who eats its poop to recycle nutrients. Contrasting gut bacteria enters the different tort then death usually occurs. I have a star, a leo and a red foot, I never take for granted hygene practices, meaning each one has its own enclosure, food dish and soaking tub. When they are grazing, they have their own perameters as well!

Again I ask, What is the gut bacteria that is in one tort that kills the other. Certainly in the outdoor area that you provide othe animals have provided poop. Birds, mice, voles, moles, squirrels. Eating the feces of an animal infected with a certain patogenic bacteria such as salmonella can give you salmonella. But thats eating the poop of a infected animal. Even members of the same species will get ill from that source. I just would like to find out what germs or parasites one species of tort has that will kill the other species of tort. As I write this I am looking at my fish tank with 6 species of fish in it. From different continents. Have the sam pH and temp requirements and have done fine for 7 years now without a death. If there is something different about tortoises I would just like to find if someone knows exactly what it is rather than just the golden rule. Most practices are founded in fact so I would imagine someone out there knows some more info. Not trying to provoke any ill feelings just curious about something which I see repeated over and over as to where it comes from. Nature is full of species overlapping.

Reptiles and fish are incomparable. Its like comparing an earthworm and a human, very different digestive systems. Tortoises are hind-gut fermenters, like horses. In their extended cecum (we have a much smaller non functional version called the appendix) is where the normal animals microbiota are located. Each species of tortoise has specific normal occuring microorganisms that correspond to the types of ruffage they would encounter/digest in the wild. No matter in captivity or the wild these microorganism popuations will always exist in a healthy tortoise. As with most organisms big and small competition does occur. When the microorganisms of different species of tortoise interact they usually end up killing eachother, and destroying the micro-environment of the cecum and large intestine and as a direct effect of that killing your tortoise. People are just trying to give their best personal advice. It seems that the general consensus is that you should not mix species for a reason, which i agree with from a medical standpoint. They are your animals, so you can do what you want with them, but for their best interest, I would reccomend keeping them seperate.

An example of disastrous effects when mixing different species of tortoise / turtles occurred with the Florida Fish and Game at a national wildlife preserve. While trying to save declining populations of our native Florida Box Turtle; 600 were collected and released at Egmont Key Florida. They were doing very well for the first few years; then the wildlife officials decided to add diversity. They wanted to try and save the protected Gopher Tortoise; so they added them to the national preserve also. ( Even though these two species never overlap naturally due to geographical barriers which kept them isolated for tens of thousands of years)

In two years, the Florida Box Turtles were almost completely wiped out due to a viral disease found in the gut of the Gopher Tortoise which had no effect on the Gophers. Further studies proved the Florida Boxies contracted the viral disorder due to direct contact with Gopher Tortoises which proved fatal without treatment due to the different species sharing common burrows on Egmont Key. There was a massive effort to remove the Gophers.

All is documented in a manuel and published book by Dr. Kenneth Dodd.

North American Box Turtles

Incidentally PBS aired a special on TORTOISES on Sept. 04/06. At the end of the segment they warned about mixing different varieties of tortoises due to respiratory infections that proved fatal. You can purchase a VHS copy via the internet.

Petri

Thanks for the info. Tom

You also have to be careful taking information out of context. There are probably more success stories when mixing species than not.

The point is that there are many factors to consider if a person is inclined to mix species. I guess the easy solution is not to do it but it can be very successfully done with good educated consideration.

>>An example of disastrous effects when mixing different species of tortoise / turtles occurred with the Florida Fish and Game at a national wildlife preserve. While trying to save declining populations of our native Florida Box Turtle; 600 were collected and released at Egmont Key Florida. They were doing very well for the first few years; then the wildlife officials decided to add diversity. They wanted to try and save the protected Gopher Tortoise; so they added them to the national preserve also. ( Even though these two species never overlap naturally due to geographical barriers which kept them isolated for tens of thousands of years)
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>>In two years, the Florida Box Turtles were almost completely wiped out due to a viral disease found in the gut of the Gopher Tortoise which had no effect on the Gophers. Further studies proved the Florida Boxies contracted the viral disorder due to direct contact with Gopher Tortoises which proved fatal without treatment due to the different species sharing common burrows on Egmont Key. There was a massive effort to remove the Gophers.
>>
>>
>> All is documented in a manuel and published book by Dr. Kenneth Dodd.
>>
>>North American Box Turtles
>>
>>Incidentally PBS aired a special on TORTOISES on Sept. 04/06. At the end of the segment they warned about mixing different varieties of tortoises due to respiratory infections that proved fatal. You can purchase a VHS copy via the internet.
>>
>> Petri
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I posted a few days ago on this. A mixing of 2 different species that are totally different and far from each other on this planet does sound a bit hazardous. How about housing a baby Leopard tort and a baby Sulcata both being hatchlings. Will this do harm to either one and up to what age should they be housed together? considering that the sulcata will grow larger than the leo, then common sense is that they shouldn't be housed together.