Reptile & Amphibian Forums

just got back from west texas, i had a great trip. we did find one alterna that we took pics of & let go, john will post pics later im sure. the gap had lots of snakes moving & really looked good after the rains but we didnt find an alterna, we did run into the game warden ray spears a couple of times, he was very nice & cordial & it was a pleasant experience.
the border patrol on the other hand was a gaggle of jack ass_s, wanted to know what we were doing were, we where going, were we had been, were did we live, where we working out west, etc, etc. i would like to urge all people to exercise thier rights & just answer whether you are a citizen & nothing else, as of yet we do not have to answer those intrusive questions in a free country, but if you dont exert your rights you will have to soon answer for when you took a crap & how many times you wipped.
once again i would like to thank tp&w (ray spears) for there courteous stops on black gap.

INS / Border Patrol never has had a clear mission. Being Feds and the largest LE agency in the world, they are incompedent. Add Homeland Security to the already nebulous mission and the problem is compounded beyond belief.
On the other hand, herping remote roads at night is low frequency behavior for most folks...hinkey...light'em up! Thank God for the aformentioned Game Warden; a good cop who understands his mission.

I will second that, Ray Spears is good people in my book!!! He chatted with me and Max Peterson on the Big Hill a couple of years ago. Very nice man, just after he pulled away from us he ran over a large Suboc that he didn't see. It's nice to see our hunting liscense fees go to good people like that.
Barry

I never had a problem with the Border Patrol. I also don't have a problem answering their questions and they have the right to ask them as they are part of the US Customs Service. Maybe if we had asked the 9/11 hijackers more questions there wouldn't be a need for Homeland Security. If you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.
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Steve W.

amen.

i hope your not serious, i truely hope you were abducted by aliens & had a slight brain fart for a minute before you see the problem with those types of questions

bottom line. i respect border patrol and their job. i dont know what they have been facing lately: drug smugglers, armed and dangerous individuals, guns pointed in their faces? no, i dont have to tell them where i have been. and the constitution protects me from telling them. but just because i have the right to treat them like a prick does not mean i have to. i will tell them anything they want to know to make them feel safe in the most unsafe profession.

Very well said. Thank you.
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Steve W.

Jeff, I know my rights very well. I have no criminal record, I have a license to carry, and to top it all I'm in the security business. The computers at company I work for went nuts on 9/11 because we had the fire and security systems in the towers. My wife, friend co-workers and myself made numerous deliveries of socks and dog food to a drop-off point for the rescuers at Ground Zero. And all this was paid for out of our own pockets. I was standing on a rooftop just across the river and seen the first tower collapse. If that wasn't a wake-up call then what is. For one I don't feel my rights are being violated in any way. Nobody has tried to take anything from me by asking me a question. I don't live by a code of silence. And you're right about the 9/11 terrorists being here illegally but under what pretense? Maybe if they were asked some questions and watched a little more closely things would have turned out different. I realize that you feed off controversy from most of your past posts. But you're wrong on this one. If all I have to do is answer some questions because we are engaging in some behavior that could be considered suspicious so be it. And yes, shining lights in the middle of the desert out in the middle of nowhere can be considered suspicious. How do they know you're not a coyote or looking for a drug drop-off? Stop trying to make their jobs more difficult and us look bad for not cooperating, and let them do their job. I for one wish there was more of them. But most of all, until you do anything to contribute to help people we call hero's and contribute to society do not dictate to me. I have witnessed in person only what you have seen on tv. With that said, stop complaining.
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Steve W.

they should hire more like that female sheriff....have them stand out there topless....everyone will be in line to tell them whatever they want....oyeh...with dollar bills stuck to our foreheads......

there are a number of reasons why i do not venture out to photograph animals at night these days. one of the primary reasons is the law enforcement. i live in alpine and see every single day a minimum of six different law enforcement agencies driving by my house. the border patrol was initially established to enforce immigration laws, not to patrol for "drug smugglers." now thier primary task is to get into your vehicle and search you. one out of every three times i go through a border check i get searched. i have had cameras and film damaged, credit cards stolen, and money taken out of my wallet by the green suited men. i have sat at a border check many times for up to four hours while they drove a K9 unit at the wee hours of the morning to sniff out my truck. i decline a search every single time i get asked, but they have the gun, emblem of homeland security, and ignorance of youth. they do as the please. the same goes with the state troopers in the west texas region.

for those that do not know, the border has been declared a state of emergency and they are now setting up road blocks through south Brewster and Presidio counties. i used to enjoy chasing the rains and finding herps, but now i cannot go a night without either being harassed by these LE officers or being spotlighted by another alterna hunter with a million candlepower flashlight while walking a cut. i count seven times this year someone has spotlighted the same cut i was walking on. five times i have been stopped by the border patrol for a "shotgun" security check. among many other incidents with law enforcement. and it is only getting worse.

r

This is getting good. Now the Border Patrol lifted your money and credit cards. I highly doubt it but it sounds like a good reason to sue. I have never been searched, probably because I didn't give them a hard time. Also, Border Patrol does not need a warrent to search your vehicle. Just probable cause which you give them everytime you decline their request. They are not bound by the same laws as the police. Again, if you have nothing to hide there should be no problems. The problems you have you create yourself. In 19 years of hunting west Texas I have never been searched nor have I ever been asked permission. The cocky attitudes are what gets people in trouble.
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Steve W.

I've read this entire thread and just want to say "way to go!" to swwit. I take the same tack he does when I am stopped by border patrol. I have been stopped perhaps fifteen times through the years. Frankly, I feel safer when they are around. I have never had anything other than a cordial conversation with these agents. They serve a vital purpose, and althoguh "some" (if you get my drift, and I think you do!)denigrate border patrol, there are many more who appreciate what these agents are accomplishing. If I had the chance to have either swwit or let's say another person with what I would call radical views as my next door neighbor, I'd choose swwit hands down.

What exactly is the Border Patrol accomplishing? Enforcing our border policy? If so, what's that? I think Congress is having a hard time with the last question. Without a clear mission, Border Patrol is out there, keeping our six safe. Yeah.

I think the border patrol serves us as a vigilant protector of the borders of the U.S., not only with Mexico, but with Canada and our water-bound borders, as well. Do they do a perfect job? No. No more than do you or I in our chosen profession. But they serve a purpose, and I think a very important one at that. I am a dentist who does his best to serve the public in ways for which I have been trained, and I am sure you try to do your best at what ever it is you have chosen to do. We are all interdependant upon one another for our various needs. For example, I can fix teeth, but you don't want me fiddling around with your brain and a scalpel, now do you? Absolutely not. Leave that up to the nuerosurgoens who have been prepared through study and training to do such procedures. I go down to the department store and buy a shirt to wear because I cannot make a shirt. There are those who know how to make shirts. There are those who can do what I do, and what you do. The genius of an ecomony and society in general is that everyone does something, although no one can do everything. I feel inclined to leave it to the border patrol to do what they have been placed there to do. Since 9/11 there has been a heightened awareness on the part of the border patrol to look for and intercept terrorists and terrorist weapons. I like that. It makes me feel more secure. My two cents worth is that we should all be grateful for what others do and less prone to cast aspersions at segments of society whose ultimate purpose is to protect and defend.

I agree with virtually all of what you say. I recently retired after 21 years of county law enforcement. Having promoted thru the ranks, I served as Division Director (Captain) during my last few years of service. I witnessed the trickle-down effect of Homeland Security on local law enforcement. I have coordinated multi-agency taskforces, that involved federal agencies including INS, FBI and Homeland Security. I was and remain unimpressed by the mission, procedures and tactics of the Feds.
Individually, they are good guys. But they are playing catch up since 9-11, and that shows in their lack of any real gameplan.
The reports out of West Texas seem to demonstrate that there has been no significant improvement I think. It seems agents are at large stopping whomever they deem worthy; herpers are viewed presumably as either terriorists or smugglers. Presumbably, latinos are either illegal, smugglers or both.
Some of the reports we have seen here would cause a captain concern. That incidents of excess as described here may be happening, suggest a broken chain of command, poor training and lack of mission focus. One should expect these elements given the ramp-up timeframes, but they need to be addressed by federal higher-ups, not applauded by citizens.
As you said: just my .02, but I'll bet INS leadership is aware of the problem a sweating it bigtime. I for one, do not feel any safer for the tactics that have been described in this thread.
Finally, I remember this is a alterna forum. I accept you all are OK people but we have different views about whats happening in southwest Texas. OK. Lets all keep our eyes and minds open. I do not intend to post further on this subject.

Everyone seems to want to forget 9/11 and the fact that plenty of terrorists have come here by way of the borders. Where are all the American flags that were strapped to car antenna's and decals on car windows? Most are gone because many have forgotten. Not me.
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Steve W.

Amen!

MAN....YOU MUST BE OUTSIDE O'YORE MIND......NOW ME...THAT'S WHO YOU WANT FOR A NEIGHBOR........SUPPORT YOUR RIGHT TO ARM BEARS

I am 100% the right arm bears. Yogi and Booboo have rights too.

Tell the truth Bob. No one has more arms to bear than me or ammo in quantity. lol
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Steve W.

you must be totally nuts, if you were stopped in sanderson or dryden while your taking a smoke enema from the border patrol they were stalling so fernando could get into place to make a stop.
some of you are so slow, the border patrol & parks & wildlife had it worked out so if they stopped you they called the game warden & asked if they should hold you for awhile. i have been talking to the game warden while a call came in from border patrol asking if they should stop the snake hunters & hold them (in dryden).
do you think it was so strange that the game warden showed up after you spotted border patrol, or a stop by them, in langtry, palma, dryden or sanderson. damn dude wake up. hahaha
ive even had border patrol tell me that snake hunting was illegal & they had actually stopped me over by langtry to tell me that. little did he know i just happened to be caring the laws with me, i think he was educated after that stop.
if that is not prof of a police state action i dont know what is.

"Also, Border Patrol does not need a warrent to search your vehicle. Just probable cause which you give them everytime you decline their request."

Are you out of your mind??? Probable cause is you exercising your rights????? If you decline a search then they have to tell you why they feel they need to search you or your vehicle in the first place. You can't decline to allow the search until they ask, and they can't ask without cause. Do you see why this is a invasion of privacy. I really hope you are just playing dumb for your point and are not really that dumb.

Racism was wrong in the 50's and is still wrong today. Now we, white America, are feeling what the minorities have been going through. I had a latin friend get pulled out of the back seat of a car between two white kids and searched. No one else was bothered and we were sent on our way. But the entire stoppage and search was illegal. Now anywhere in America this can happen to anyone because we can all be labeled security risk.

The reason we are getting upset about this is because we are looking at they big picture. We don't get that warm fuzzy safe feeling from this crap we get the sick "oh no not again" feeling. Read a history book will you. McCarthyism anyone.

"Are you or have you ever been a terrorist/communist or associated with any group there of???" "No?? It say here that you made frequent trips to west Texas. Where you helping terrorist?"

Far fetched????? God I hope so!!!!!!

Wake up it is not that far off.

Jason

Do you actually think that every roadside search by law enforcement is done through a warrent issued by a judge? Maybe some of you need to ask yourself why they want to take a look around. Like I said before, i've never been searched or asked permission to be searched in 19 years of collecting west Texas. I have respect for law enforcement and the tough job they have. They ask me what i'm doing, I say snake hunting and they say to have a good night. I imagine if I answer "none of your business" to the same question I would have a little less time to look for snakes that night.
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Steve W.

Amen. I've hunted for nearly 20 years in TX. NEVER have I been asked to be searched. In fact, one time we even told them we had about 10 guns from my grandfather we were taking home - no search. If you are honest and don't conceal anything they can sense it and they leave you alone. In fact, when the 'new' station on 277 is manned, they ALWAYS want to chat with me about snakes they have seen. Much better than saying 'I don't have to tell you that.'
GLENN

Declining a request to search is not in itself probable cause for a search. Just thing about, if that was what they would need then why have a Judge sign the warrant?

I see both sides of this, but that is the biggest load of crap ever. Americans have died for more than 200 years to keep that type of fascism from happening.

Now as for the thread, Tank is not wrong. However he is an extreme example of individual rights verses state powers. Plus, I can tell you tell you that there is no way anybody will ever stop the Tank on the internet with an argument. He is loving every minute of this, it is like candy to him.

Now me, I will cooperate with LE, and depending on the circumstances I might consent to a search. Or, I might not consent to the search. I might instead ask them what they are looking for and why they think I have it. Then they will need to line out their probable cause for a search. There are polite ways to say no thank you after all.

As for things being stolen during a search, it happens. I am not naive enough to think that everybody in law enforcement earned all their Boy Scout Badges. They have bad apples just like every other group. They also have a share of idiots, I have actually met a few of them before. One asked me if I had anybody else in the vehicle with me. I was in an Isuzu regular cab pickup at the time with no camper shell. Now where would I have these extra people. I let him search behind my seat where he found my pistol. He also asked me if my handgun was registered, he must have been from out of state because we do not register our guns in Texas. Another wanted to search my vehicle because I did not make enough eye contact with him during the stop. He was standing behind me while I was seat belted in a car. I am not sure about the rest of you, but my head does not spin 180 degrees. I actually had to explain that to him, and BTW he did not search my vehicle.

In my opinion the Border Patrol agents in the areas that are hunted frequently should get used to us eventually. In fact if they got their act together we could be a resource to them. We are out night after night in a given area, and could let them know if anything suspicious turns up. They should be working on a relationship with the people they talk to, not searching you just because you are there, have reasons not excuses.

Lance, the point is that if Jeff wants to say no to a search he can roll with that and see what happens And that's his chosen right. On the other hand if I say go ahead and take a look around that is my choice and i'll probably be on my way faster that way. I have respect for Jeff's opinion and don't mind a debate but he likes to step over the line and start with the name calling. I'm not saying we have to agree on anything but there should be mutual respect. After all we all have the right to our opinions, so why should we have to agree with Jeff or be subjected to name calling? Did I miss something and there's a new rule that says I must agree? NOT.
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Steve W.

And you have to remember I have been burned a lot harder than most with abuse by LE. So I have a limited tolerance now. If LE feels the need to pull me over, fine. If they want to ask 20 questions, fine. If they want to ask to search me or my vehicle, fine. What ever toots their horn, they can always ask. But if they want to spend all that extra time with me, or root around in my personal belongings there needs to be a very good reason for it. And me telling you I would rather not have you waste my time or have them touch my stuff is not probable cause. Remember we have individual rights just like LE has authority, it is all in boundries.

I am willing tell them who I am, what I am doing, where I am from, and sometimes where I am going. But I am tired of being treated like a criminal. And I will ask them to justify anything beyond the small talk. If you get fed up with LE during a stop you have every right to communicate that with them. Just be nice...

Ask them what they are looking for. Ask them why they think you have it. Ask them "am I free to go now?". They either have to say yes or have some reason to keep you, so ask them to explain why they feel the need to detain you. None of these questions need to make you sound like a prick. Just ask nicely and expect good answers. And if we all try to do this it will help keep everything in some balance. Do not forget that any time LE detains you, you are effectivly arrested until they let you go. If you think that is not true, try to walk away.

It is true they have a job to do, but they should not be going for any extra credit in my opinion.

The whole thing can be very civilized with nobody getting there feelings hurt as long as you ask nicely. Now if you start screaming about civil rights abuse, or calling people names, that is different. You will not be leaving as quickly or as happily if you turn it into an argument on the side of the road.

Lance, what you just said makes perfectly good sense and I agree with how you say to go about things. What I don't agree with is a confrontation with LE and a roadside argument because I will always lose that situation in the end. I have no problem answering their questions and being sent on my way to hunt.
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Steve W.

>>Lance, the point is that if Jeff wants to say no to a search he can roll with that and see what happens And that's his chosen right. On the other hand if I say go ahead and take a look around that is my choice and i'll probably be on my way faster that way.

In essence therefore, you are choosing expedience over maintaining your rights. Like you say, it's your choice, but bear in mind that every person that takes that route leads LE to think it's the normal, expected behavior for everyone they stop.

To understand where I'm coming from, I'm the kind of guy who fights parking tickets. Sure, it's only $20, and it would take less of my time to just pay the fee, but when the govt is in the wrong (and they were in that case as well as the vehicle searches), they're in the wrong.

By the way, I work for the govt!
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

I know it seems like we are choosing expedience over our rights, but it is more than that really. I choose NOT to be a hinderance and not to make LEs job more difficult. People waive their rights all the time for a variety of reasons but it doesn't mean they are allowing the government to walk all over them. If you were stopped by LE, you have the right to remain silent - Do you act like a deaf mute? By your logic you are giving up your rights if you tell them anything. Why don't you call your lawyer to talk for you every time you are stopped? Expedience. This is why people waive rights, NOT because they want to be stomped on by our government.

What is normal expected behavior is to be respectful. I too work for the government, and I fight tickets all of the time - even if I am guilty - because I hope in some way there will be a technicality. It is all about principles. My principles or rights are not compromised by having a conversation with LE.
respectfully,
GLENN

I do talk to them, I do let them know what is going on. But I do also draw a line at what is complete waste of both my time and LEs time.

I at no point said that I just give them name rank and serial number and refuse to cooperate at all. I instead communicate with them to find out why I was stopped, what they are looking for and why they think I would have it.

And more often then not I just show them what they want to see without the indignity of a search. After all, I have nothing to hide.

It seems that people have a hard time understanding that you can cooperate with LE without assuming the position every time you are pulled over.

Chris, I don't care to be "detained" for a bad attitude. I'm not a Texas resident so the last thing I need is to have to spend hundreds of dollars on a plane ticket to appear in court for my attitude or worse yet locked up in a cell. LE knows that as well and won't think twice about making things unbearable. I answer thing politely and i'm always send on my way along with have a good night and be careful out there from Border Patrol. I guess you get respect when you give it is the bottom line.
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Steve W.

You should be treated like an American. If they have a reasonable suspicion they should ask to search and follow through with it. But doing it because they have a little free time is BS.

I'm sorry Lance. You're right. What I should have done when I was asked a question is to say nothing or argue a little and possibly be detained or arrested if I take it that far. This way I get to call my wife and tell her that my son will have to be in the states custody too until i'm free'd. But it's OK because a few people on kingsnake's forum explaned to me what to do and what doesn't matter. Please give me your phone number so you can bail me out being I would be doing this to preserve "our" rights. I just can't beleive I was wrong about this whole subject. Thanks.
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Steve W.

I have had them back down on request to search at BP checkpoints by nicely asking what they are looking for and why they think I would have it. You should be working with them so that you can understand each other.

I do not argue with them, that is where you seem to have a hang up. All I am saying is that you can spend 30 seconds talking to them to prevent 30 minutes of being searched. The key is to be nice, be intelligent, and be honest. If you turn things into an emotional exchange you will most likely not enjoy the benefits of communication. Which may be where your hang seems to be coming from here.

But if you can not understand that, I am sorry. If you think you will be arrested for that, I am sorry for that too.

I am basically advising people to communicate with LE, not to be afraid to ask reasonable questions about their suspicions. If the only way a person can communicate is with an emotional exchange then the outlook is not good. Plus you can screw up the next persons day by leaving the stink of your argument behind.

If you need my number then shoot me an email. I am on the road in AZ right now and can be reached on my work laptop.
LBenton @t Argusx .dot com

I would be happy to help out if you were in a bind, I am a working middle class guy with average resources. However I will always do what I can to help any fellow herper in need.

BTW, Bagdad was a bust for me, no live snakes at all. And I hit the roads from 7:00 to 2:00. Maybe down South or West Texas will be better as I work my way home?

Well you surprised me with your generosity. I thank you for the offer if ever needed. I would like to think that if situations ever arise all of us would step up and lend a hand. Not that it should ever come to that. Good luck on the remainder of your trip.

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Steve W.

Headed South in AZ, at least I saw a few live blacktails. I also got pictures of some Tigers that an off duty fish and game officer found.

AZ end result is no animals harvested, but a few pictures and pleasent experiance the officer.

Tomorrow I will make one more night back in TX before going home.

Lance

your rights are something you must fight for & work hard on keeping. we would have no rights if everyone just took the lazy way out because they were in a hurry. there is no legal ramifications for not allowing a search or for not answering intrusive questions.
i do choose to exercise my rights & i do believe that i cannot stand alone. it takes many people to be heard over the noise of In The Name Of Terrorism, we have become a complacent society & have been taught for years to not fight back, the very reason we dont stand up for our rights is the very reason we are prayed upon by the terrorist, we are weak & pathetic in general & if our foreign policies did not bribe foreign countries we would have no voice in the world today. (pretty sickening). the right to bare arms is not written to allow for hunting, it is in place to allow people to defend themselves, not from every day thugs or terrorist but rather from the terrene of a government out of control.
I would much rather never allow my rights to be eroded so far that this country would become in tierney & in state of ciaos, but rather use my rights every day so that the erosion on them has been stopped.
the day that a damn snake becomes more important then the right to hunt them, collect them, keep them or take pics of them is a very sad day indeed. i will always choose a slight delay in my schedule over trying to make a speedy get away to go hunt or return from a hunt.

jeff adams

It's hard to imagine that you're getting searched one out of three times you pass thru the check station. I live on Terlingua Ranch and go thru the check station south of Alpin at least once a week. In the last four years, I have NEVER been searched. Once the agent asked if he could look in my truck bed tool box. When I replied, "sure let me take the key off my keyring". He said, "Never mind" and waived me thru.

Frankly, it concerns me that they never look in my tool box, under the camper shell of my other truck, or inside my 14' enclosed cargo trailer. I could hide anything or anyone back there.

I'm sure that there are people who very well may be harrassed frequently. But it's for a reason and the reason may be Border Patrol's past experiences with these people and how they conduct themselves. Some people are anti-government also. And it's obvious to LE.
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Steve W.

where does she set up???

I would let her check anything she wants to check and invite her into my home to search there too. I would comply with giving a DNA sample too. lol
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Steve W.

On average, I go through the TX 118 border check station four to six times a week. It all depends on where I am working. I usually travel through the check station south of Marathon twice a week. It also relates to thier determination of your age. I went through the station a few times on a bicycle and had a hole drilled in the bike so they could search inside of it. It is not that I am anti-government; it relates more to the number of hours I have spent sitting and waiting for a dog to arrive. Then watching my vehicle being torn up because they said the dog alerted to something (it alerted to the exhaust pipe twice on seperate occasions). After all is said and done, they walk away and leave you to put your truck back together and sometimes have to find someone to air your tires back up. There is a certain age threshold one must cross. Once you have passed it then they do not go through near the extremes to make your life hell. In lieu, you have to make your assumptions based upon your experiences. So far my experience with the LE has never been positive and I am singled out no matter what state I travel through.

r

You're probably right about LE profiling by age. I guess being over 40 has at least one advantage. Also, having three screaming kids in the back probably helps. I'm sure they don't want to have to deal an old fat guy, a menopausal woman and three out of control kids while ripping out my car seats.

Age has little to do with their "profiling" . . . looking like "Shaggy on Scooby-Doo" has a much greater bearing on why you seem to get singled out for stops LOL

Troy

LOL

However, this is south Brewster county. 85% of the population needs a haircut, shower and wash. Shaggy is down right clean-cut compared to some of my neighbors.

another time you mentioned something of haircuts and wash some time ago. Yeah right! as if they can tell your appearance at night driving down the highway. As a Viet vet, i refuse to " fit " in to the business haircut and un-bearded society to cause me less hassles and even in this day with all of the tats and body piercings, i guess those folks are singled out as well as being profiled also. Read the new hiring account of only the biggest mass merchandiser of the world Wal - Mart ?, and see how they have now changed their policy for hiring..........it includes associates with tats and piercings, just not in nose and mouth.
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

I'm talking about "increasing your chances of getting profiled" at a check point. Where they've got huge lights, etc., and can certainly see what you look like.

As they can if you pass their vehicle off on the roadside and they are using night vision LOL

And I'm not saying that profiling the long haired "hippy" look is right, just saying that if you look like their profile idea of someone likely to have a stash, that you shouldn't be surprised to get searched.

Troy

look these days . LOL ! While I KNOW of the tech-no of night vision and the road sensors was out before we arrived ( Border Hot Line on-line publication ) the military moved all to the Marfa sector with a reporter being out with them for 2 weeks. AND the way that I read it, the military wasn't that close to the roadways in using the night vision.
As far as being expected of stops, going with the news, no. I fully expected on the stops as the news had stated. The only thing that really surprised me was all of the combined law enforcement being together en-mass with > border patrol, wildlife, state troopers. sheriffs departments and state and local. At the first roadblock there was 3 vehicles with 7 law enforcement agents jumping out. The second road block was with 6. The funny thing is that we saw no law enforcement on River Road what so ever but at Study Butte , yes, Terlingua , yes. And what got me was the road blocks going south on 118 and not north ? And all of the look to be very NEW vehicles up-date that included SUVs and small trucks, Very little of the cars were seen by us. The second same night road block had the agents literately out on the road on foot flashing us down with flashlights. This could of been un-nerving if it wasn't a law enforcement branch !
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

they are use to seeing you, when i lived south of sa i rarely got checked at the ussual check points that i had to cross
most of the time they would only wave me by

Rob,
As entertaining as I find all these posts to be, allegations like the one you just posted are pure 100% crap. I wouldn't normally chime in on a conversation like this but your post has to be labeled what it is; BS. If you don't like the BP, that's 100% your right. But to sling public allegations around of thievery and corruption just rubs me wrong. I find it unfortunate that you allow your paranoia and hatred to spoil your herp outings and photography. Please don't spoil it for the rest of the youngsters that undoubtedly read these forums. The BP are out there every night doing their damndest to catch anything that looks even remotely like a terrorist and while doing this catching undocumented aliens, drug smugglers, murderers, rapist, stolen vehicles, MS13, you name it WE CATCH IT. Enjoy your safety at home on your computer. Sorry for the rant guys but sometimes...well you know...JP

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Snakes of Hudspeth County, Texas

Of my age of 57 and 30 years of being stopped by every imaginable law enforcement down there and ANY of my other stops of my state and other for even traffic violations, I have YET to have even one single law enforcement agency EVER want to hold my bill fold, other for any reason. It has ALWAYS been that they want YOU to pull out your credentials to show ! Heck, just watch a COPS program. While they may search a person bodily and pull a billfold or such and money ( cash ) out of a pocket, they ALWAYS have another officer present and document the contents or record it. My .02 cents.
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

Thank you Senor Chambers. Nice to hear....Jason
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Snakes of Hudspeth County, Texas

I knew it would take long for somebody to pull out the 9/11 trump card. And I was not disappointed. I for one refuse to accept a constant state of fear that would require me to give up my rights and freedoms. You have the right to not be searched as much as they have the right to ask. Where it gets tricky is when they feel they have the right to impose a search without your prior consent.

Also you have the right to answer questions about yourself and your activities, if you choose to do so. I think you are only required to identify yourself to LE, anything else you tell them is up to you. I think that is the 5th...

Now I am not saying to be prick to LE, but I will say do not be afraid to question them if you feel like they are pushing things too far. Their authority is not absolute... Remember when our Forefathers framed our Constitution it was with the idea that it was better to let a 100 guilty men be free than it was to take away the rights of 1 innocent man.

So many people have forgotten that, and it is a shame.

I can understand the mentality of wanting to be helpful and such, but the simple fact of the matter is that allowing ourselves to be grouped with the worst, and therefor questioned as such and treated as such, we have conceded to justified government interference in our lives. This can, and mostl ikely will, start a slippery slope to worse things to keep us fully controlled and accountable to our government aka PATRIOT ACT.

Tank...I agree with most of what you wrote, but I predict an incosistancy in your beliefs, a bias, an agenda...If you are all for our rights, the rights that our country's founders intended us to have, then what is your stance on the prohibition of drugs? Alchohol minimum ages? I bet that you are like most typical neo-conservatives- one sided and agenda based...

I'll chime in with my two cents worth LOL

I generally cooperate with BP, DPS, etc when they ask me their questions . . . like many of you, for expedience sake. I know when they ask "where are you going, where are you coming from" etc, that what they are really doing is hoping you get nervous, etc and act suspiciously. Logically, I don't think that there are making notes regarding my movements across the US (if they were, they wouldn't have to ask every time I go through the Comstock or 118 check points LOL). However, I do feel that when they ask these questions, they are overstepping their bounds - they have already ascertained that I am a US citizen, what more do they need to know? The drug dog is standing right there, not giving a "hit" on my vehicle, etc . . .

Last night, I got stopped by DPS in Alpine for "not using my left turn signal" (the only direction I could turn was left LOL). Logically, I also understand that what was happening was that they were stopping me in order to run my ID for outstanding warrants and that by violating the left-turn signal technicality, I gave them cause to stop me. I had a polite conversation with the officer about the current "Homeland Security" initiative that is ongoing in Brewster/Presidio Counties - I very politely told him that all of the police activity seemed more than a bit "Orwellian" - while he had me stopped, 3 other cars passed by, two on their way to stops.

And no, I don't feel any safer with all of that LE activity. It really seems unjustified on a tax dollars spent vs actual gain in crime reduction or increases in National Security basis.

Finally, I must concur with Lance - always always be polite. Even if you disagree with the policy that the officers are enforcing, they are just doing their jobs and don't deserve any sort of abuse from you.

Troy

Troy, I feel the same as to how to approach the situation in the exact same way. Answer a few harmless questions and be on my way. Thanks for your input.
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Steve W.

I thought any officer could ask you anything and that you have the right not to answer.
I did not think an officer doesn't have the right to ask you.
Which is correct?

Aaron, he does have the right to ask you. Under your constitutional rights you don't have to answer his questions and take the fifth. The debate here is about would you answer his questions or not. The few times I've been asked questions in the past led them to tell me to have a nice night and be careful out there. Some people choose to not answer any questions and thats their right. My opinion is that the roadside is no place to debate the laws and that those issues should be debated in court or with the state legistlatures. If you remember, this past june the game warden tried to feed us some false laws from his @ss and I took care of that problem the next morning and none of us were ever approached again. He just drove by.
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Steve W.

that out of town warden was there for a similar "Homeland Security" initiative like has happened in Alpine recently - they brought in wardens from across the state - many of which had no previous experience with snake hunters.

Troy

He seen my son and I in the Beals shopping mall the day after he got reamed out. He gave us the look of death. LOL I think he cursed us because we didn't see much after that day. But we did see the Assetto sausage while it was still fresh but Aaron forgot the bread.

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Steve W.

Thanks Steve. If that's the case then I am happy to answer a few questions. I tend to draw the line at searches though and would refuse one on moral grounds if I felt I had given the officer enough credible information to determine that I am just snake hunting.
Basicly it's excercising your rights. Excercise is not something you need to do every minute of every day in order to stay healthy.

Aaron, that is the best i have heard it put out of all the posts. We don't have to be @-holes or be treated as such.
Todd Hughes

Aaron, I agree with Todd. Your solution to the problem makes the most sense. Now how about some pics from your trip?
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Steve W.