Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm working on building two types of new cages for my animals- a modular style cage that will be stackable for my colubrids, and a nice display for my JCP & Hog Island boas.

For the colubrids, I came up with a very simple plan. I'd like to use 12"x36" shelves from Home Depot to build the cage. They're melamine coated boards that are the exact same as what you'd use for a shelf in a book shelf, except they don't have holes, and have melamine on all sides. I want to use one for the top, back, and bottom, with a square for each end, and a hinged pane of glass for the front.

Now, the questions about this type of caging- Will those melamine coated boards hold up? I intend to seal all of the corners with aquarium grade silicon, and will cover all screw holes (which will only be on the outside) with the same stuff. I'm not planning on any of the cages holding high-humidity animals, but there is always an occaisional spilled water dish, and they need to be able to hold up to misting at least during breeding season(we have fairly high humidity, and that's generally the only time my colubrids get misted- to encourage breeding). If I need to coat them in something, what should I use? Just any old water-based polyurethane should be enough to hold up to any of that, right? I was thinking of glueing(via aquarium sealant) in a piece of plastic, like plexiglass or something onto the floor. That would give it a completely smooth, waterproof finish that would easily wipe clean. The only problem with that is plexiglass seems to only come in clear- could I find a similar product that was white? Expanded PVC is out, because no one anywhere around here has it. Any color plastic would work, but I'm thinking of using the white boards for cages.

That said- what type of glass should I use for the door? Double paned? What strength/thickness? The glass sheets would be roughly 12x36, but may be cut a bit smaller so that I can put a wood frame around it.

That's everything for the colubrid cages. Now, on to the JCP & boa cages. I really want to build these out of a nice hardwood, with a nice stain. These are meant to be display cages that I'll have in the living room forever. The colubrids are OK in the snake room, but especially the Hogs, I want cages that look more like furniture. Thus, I'm willing to spend more money on them, to make them look nice. Is there any type of wood you guys could recommend that would look the best for these cages? Right now, I'm thinking of doing a dark cherry finish on whatever I use. What would compliment this well? So far, I'm thinking glass for the front & sides, with a wood back, top, bottom, and frame around the glass. The bottom, I'd like to coat in plastic, the same as for the colubrids.

thanks in advance for the help.

Will those melamine coated boards hold up?

Most of the melamine shelves with the edge-banding are a high weight thermofused product. In other words, pretty high quality. With a plastic floor of some sort laminated to the floor they should last a long time for Colubrids with low to moderate humidity requirements.

If I need to coat them in something, what should I use? Just any old water-based polyurethane should be enough to hold up to any of that, right?

Most polyurethanes won't adhere to melamine without a seal coat being put down first. And some seal coats won't stick to melamine. You could use melamine paint or the vinyl film used in the graphics industry. Either of these choices could be done years later if and when you are seeing a breakdown of the melamine finish. In this case you might want to use a paintable caulk if using melamine paint appeals to you.

I was thinking of glueing(via aquarium sealant) in a piece of plastic, like plexiglass or something onto the floor. That would give it a completely smooth, waterproof finish that would easily wipe clean. The only problem with that is plexiglass seems to only come in clear- could I find a similar product that was white? Expanded PVC is out, because no one anywhere around here has it.

Have you tried sign shops for the expanded PVC? Call them and ask if they have 1/8" Sintra.

The easiest choice for this is to find a large scrap or returned section of linoleum or other vinyl flooring. The glueless types are especially easy to cut and get to lay flat in an already assembled cage. But really any scrap vinyl flooring will work.

Lastly, why worry about the color? Won't it be covered with some sort of substrate?

Regardless, I'm not a fan of acrylic for this application.

what type of glass should I use for the door? Double paned? What strength/thickness? The glass sheets would be roughly 12x36

More and more I'm starting to think laminated safety glass is the best choice. I would recommend 1/4" - the most common thickness of laminated glass.

Is there any type of wood you guys could recommend that would look the best for these cages?

I would only use hardwood for the face frame and any decorative trim you might use. For the carcass of the cage use a high quality laminated plywood. I would shop for this at a cabinet supply shop instead of Home Depot. With a dark cherry finish you have a lot of options. The hardest part will be making the plywood parts match the face frame.

In a nutshell, I would just about anything other than the radial-sawn oak laminated plywood that you find at Home Depot or other big-box stores.

I would first start by picking out the wood for the face frame stock. You'll need to find something not only that fits your price point but also that comes milled and is relatively flat and straight (unless you have access to a jointer and planer). Then pick a high quality plywood that you can match to that.

IMHO, of course.

-----
Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

Chris covered you on everything 100% Here's a couple of pics of my oak cages. Solid frames and doors with "Home Depot" plywood carcases.

My first cage, made over a decade ago and still going strong:

My snake room showing both the first and the second (with improvements) which was made a few years ago:

One of cage #2 by itself, if you look close you can see the entire inside is lined with formica....overkill but WAY easy to clean:

and one single section of cage #1:

Oh yeah, the pipes on the outside are for breeding season, I can open them up and my BRB's can travel cage to cage looking for wild snake sex.

-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB, selectively bred from good stock)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
11.24 BRB
10.16 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Regarding the melamine cages, I forgot to mention protecting the first couple of inches of the cages walls. Next to the floor this is the area of the cage that can take some abuse.

One thing I recommend is a run of 2" clear packing tape run around the bottom perimeter of the cage.

Vinyl floor plus the packing tape plus the higher quality melamine should make for a very long lasting cage.

Also, regarding the Home Depot oak, I only recommended against since the dramatic grain patterns of the radial sawn veneer does not always go very well with the dark cherry look. For that something like book-matched veneered cherry plyood or even birch laminated plywood goes a bit better.

I have used the Home Depot stuff myself, but only when I wanted the dramatic grain patterns. The is one of the few cages I've built with it. Specifically selected the piece for the back panel for the grain pattern.

-----
Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

No mater what you make it out of, the snakes will poop on the sides. If you use paper for substrate, Many of us do since it's soooooooooo much easier to care for, design the cage and or paper around what you will use. My cages are intentionally smaller than std newspaper so it will go up the sides a bit. I've been using dimpled craft paper in addition to newspaper for over a year and love it. Looks really good and with a couple layers of newspaper underneath, will soak up a large mess fairly well.

Again, if you run the paper up the sides a couple inches give or take, the messes are even easier to clean. What does not get smeared on the sides does not have to be cleaned off of the sides!!

-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB, selectively bred from good stock)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
11.24 BRB
10.16 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

The packing tape is a great idea! I never would have thought of that. I was thinking of using the same plastic I end up using for flooring on the first like two inches.

Vinyl flooring it is! I have a 5'x9' roll of that standing in my bathroom right now, and we're moving before remodeling the bathroom now! Solution at hand.

And for the hardwood... The dark cherry is just an idea. I'm not positive what color I want to go yet, and there's always a chance that it will be refinished at a later date, when I'm moved into my own house (I'm currently still a student, living with my father). But, I LOVE wood that shows heavy grain. That's exactly what I'm looking for. Something with character. My mother's entire kitchen was hand made by Amish craftsmen (ah the wonders of Western Pennsylvania), and every bit of it has a very heavy grain. I've loved it since the day I saw it.

Even though you like the "Amish" look I'd still recommend a plywood of some sort for the main carcass of the cage. It's much more dimensionally stable in the presence of humidity and temperature extremes - like those in a reptile enclosure.

And oak might be for you, although I'd still recommend staying away from the radial sawn veneers. Other veneer types on oak that you'd probably like would be rift or quarter sawn in a bookmatched veneer. "Species" would be either red or white oak.

With these higher quality plywoods you can even get a UV cured epoxy coating. I have not tested these for a reptile enclosure but they sound promising. Both Columbia and Nova make a plywood with a UV cured epoxy coating. You can order it with either one or both sides coated. I would be inclined to offer some protection to the cage floor and at least part of the cage sides instead of trusting the factory epoxy finish.
-----
Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

Every tub user has a stack of lids somewhere! LOL

-----
Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
0.0.11 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.2 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
0.0.1 Youth -coming soon-

>>Every tub user has a stack of lids somewhere! LOL

It's so hard to just throw them away. I've got stacks of them everywhere. Seriously though, I do plan on recycling many of them. Last year at this time I had no racks. The baby BRB's were in shoeboxes with lids stacked inside another very large cage. With the proceeds from last years babies, I bought some boaphile Rhino raxx. Awesome racks BTW, work GREAT for BRB's, I didn't drill any holes in the tubs and the humidity stays nice and high, they thrived in the new racks. Then this year I built sweaterbox racks (lidded), Iris CB110 (lidless) and the central shoebox (lidless)/workbench unit. I can get rid of many lids now but I want to wait until after this year and see if I need/use the lids for sorting. Back to the one per lidded box and shuffle around until I decide which are wholesale and which are retail and of course the keepers and screamers!!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB, selectively bred from good stock)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
11.24 BRB
10.16 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

OK, here's a really loose idea I'm having right now. I may be able to get ahold of some expanded PVC, specifically the Sintra brand that I hear about people using.

If I were to use that to build my cages, instead of using the melamine coated boards, what would I need special to cut & glue it together? I was told at one pint that standard PVC glue can be used to hold it together. Is this toxic after curing? And what thickness expanded PVC would I need to use? I can't get anything thicker than 4mm. Would that be sturdy enough for cages? I know it would hold up a heck of a lot better, and seems like it would be a LOT less hassle.

4mm is too thin for cage walls, but is fine to use as a laminate for a wood cage floor.

There are now many cage mfgrs that use expanded PVC to make cages. Ordinary PVC cement works fine and is not toxic once cured. The minimum thickness you should use is 1/4" or the 6mm thickness. There is one guy I know of using the 3/8" thick material with fantastic results (www.pvccages.com).

Some mfgrs heat-bend the 1/4" PVCx and some glue or plastic-weld separate pieces. If you plan to use separate pieces, you must cut the plastic with square edges using a table saw or circular saw. Another idea is to use PVC angle extrusion from a plastics outlet like US-Plastics.

I think it ends up being cheaper to buy cages if you don't have the tools and room to make them. The material per sq ft is not cheap, especially in the small quantity you will need. Look in the classifieds on this site (Cages/Heat/Light/Supplies).

Yes 1/4" is better. Weld On makes a waterthin solvent for rigid pvc. It works great. is faster setting than regular pvc glue and is totally non toxic after curing.