Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My Eastern boxies reside in an outdoor enclosure at high altitude in Utah. The weather is starting to turn autumnal & the mornings are getting cool. This is my first winter with my boxies. They are around 3 years old & are CBB. At what point should I move them inside? Is there a temperature below which they really should be inside for the season?
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Robins Critters
1.0 Corn snake Jack Skellington
1.1 Hog Island Boas Harley & Isaboa
0.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snake Jasmine
1.0 South American Boa Elvis
0.1 Western Hognose Addy the Adder
1.0 Tricolor Hognose Yoshi
1.3 Leopard Geckos Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
1.2 Crested Geckos Fox Mulder, Peek & Boo
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo
1.1 Eastern Box Turtles Squirtle II & Yurtle II
0.1 Pacman Frog Buffy the Cricket Slayer
0.0.1 Sulawesi Red Toad Mr. Toad
0.2 Tiger Salamanders Tiger & Sally
1.1.2 Firebelly Newts Wayne Newton, Fig Newton, Olivia Newton John & Thandie Newton
1.1 Cats Gus & Mena

Ooooh, that's a loaded question...but a good one. It really depends. If you intend to keep your turtles indoors without hibernation, you'd want to bring them in when nighttime temperatures drop below 50 degrees F. You can still place them outdoors for the day as long as temps stay above 65 degrees F. This is very variable, of course. I've noticed that my turtles stop activity altogether when nighttime temperatures are below 50. The reason that I remember this so well is because this is also when I seed and lime my lawn .

At 3 years old, you may want to consider hibernating your turtles. This is completely your decision, and it depends on how comfortable you'll be doing this. I've traveled extensively in Utah, and the higher elevation areas aren't really that different climatically than the turtles' native habitat. Your biggest issue is lack of humidity. This is fairly easy to overcome. The benefits of hibernation are not completely understood. The default answer seems to always be that it's necessary for reproduction. I know for a fact that this is not the case in Eastern box turtles. It may help, though. I'm of the school of thought that if the turtles hibernate (brumate) naturally in their native habitat, I'll hibernate them. To be safe, some people dedicate a small refrigerator or wine cooler for hibernation purposes. That way, they can control the temperature, check on the turtles visually, weight them, kiss them goodnight, tell them that they miss them, etc.

It's just something to think about. Your turtles are still young, and you have a few years before they get really set in their ways. If an adult has never been hibernated, I personally wouldn't recommend attempting it. In my experience, young turtles are far more adaptable.

I'm glad to hear that your turtles are still doing well. Aren't they so much more hardy than hatchlings?

Thanks, Ken. I have a 40 gallon breeder tank in my garage & was planning to hibernate them there, however, I'm not sure the garage will be 50 degrees or cooler. I live on the Wasatch bench & my porch, where the turtles' house is, gets several feet of snow during the winter. I guess I'm scared they won't survive under all that... I do have a plastic cover for their enclosure. I could put that over it to protect them from the snow, while still getting the cold weather. Here's a pic. The nights are around 58 degrees right now.

In addition to the above questions, how should I prepare their enclosure for hibernation? Do they need something other than their current dirt, like hay or leaves or anything?

Oh, & yes, they really are doing well & are quite hardy.

Thanks for the help!

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Robins Critters
1.0 Corn snake Jack Skellington
1.1 Hog Island Boas Harley & Isaboa
0.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snake Jasmine
1.0 South American Boa Elvis
0.1 Western Hognose Addy the Adder
1.0 Tricolor Hognose Yoshi
1.3 Leopard Geckos Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
1.2 Crested Geckos Fox Mulder, Peek & Boo
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo
1.1 Eastern Box Turtles Squirtle II & Yurtle II
0.1 Pacman Frog Buffy the Cricket Slayer
0.0.1 Sulawesi Red Toad Mr. Toad
0.2 Tiger Salamanders Tiger & Sally
1.1.2 Firebelly Newts Wayne Newton, Fig Newton, Olivia Newton John & Thandie Newton
1.1 Cats Gus & Mena

Oops, I forgot that they live in the big ole' turtle belly.

You should not brumate them in that. Either provide them with a controlled temperature environment or construct a hibernaculum that rests on the ground. They need to be able to dig down into a pile of leaves, pine needles, straw, etc. and even into the ground to be able to find the correct temperature and humidity at which to brumate. Basically, with outdoor brumation, you are leaving it up to the turtle to regulate its own brumation. You need to provide several feet of topsoil, then a several feet thick layer of tree litter. The depth is controlled by the frost line. A quick call to one of your local utility companies should provide you with reliable information as to the depth of your region's frost line. Your turtles would need to go deeper than that.

Brumation is a function of temperature and time. They are directly related. If you keep your turtles at 50 degrees, they may use up their fat reserves in a month. If you keep them close to 40, they may be able to go for 3 to 5 months. It all depends. Here's a link to more information -

http://www.boxturtlesite.org/hib.html

One thing that I disagree with is idea that snow is bad. A layer of snow actually provides a degree of insulation. This does not mean that it keeps the turtles warm, but it does protect them from temperature extremes. Throughout the winter, the ground temperatures fluctuate. A nice layer of snow helps to minimize this fluctuation.

After all this, you're just gonna keep them inside aren't you? I don't blame you.

LOL! Yes, probably. I wouldn't mind building a hibernaculum for them, but not this year. I'm starting my final year of grad school & am just too busy to take that on right now. I did buy another bag of topsoil today, though, to thicken their substrate. I've been toying w/ the idea of just moving the purple thing to the garage. It'll be cooler & help slow them down some for the winter, w/o actually hibernating them, I think. What do you think? I've appreciated your help & will look at that site.
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Robins Critters
1.0 Corn snake Jack Skellington
1.1 Hog Island Boas Harley & Isaboa
0.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snake Jasmine
1.0 South American Boa Elvis
0.1 Western Hognose Addy the Adder
1.0 Tricolor Hognose Yoshi
1.3 Leopard Geckos Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
1.2 Crested Geckos Fox Mulder, Peek & Boo
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo
1.1 Eastern Box Turtles Squirtle II & Yurtle II
0.1 Pacman Frog Buffy the Cricket Slayer
0.0.1 Sulawesi Red Toad Mr. Toad
0.2 Tiger Salamanders Tiger & Sally
1.1.2 Firebelly Newts Wayne Newton, Fig Newton, Olivia Newton John & Thandie Newton
1.1 Cats Gus & Mena

With regards to hibernation/brumation, you need to either go all the way or not at all. In other words, either you brumate them at around 45 degrees or you keep them at ideal 75-85 degrees.

The set up you have them in is not good for hibernating/brumating outdoors, even in a garage, in my opinion.

That's a great article & it turns out I had a link to that book in my favorites folder. I'm glad you remembered it, as I certainly didn't

I really like the hibernation box described in the article & believe I will use that. I'm still not sure, however, if I'll hibernate them this year or not. I need to decide soon as temps are dropping & it's clear that fall is around the bend...
Robin
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Robins Critters
1.0 Corn snake Jack Skellington
1.1 Hog Island Boas Harley & Isaboa
0.1 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snake Jasmine
1.0 South American Boa Elvis
0.1 Western Hognose Addy the Adder
1.0 Tricolor Hognose Yoshi
1.3 Leopard Geckos Yoda, Geo, Tang, Ginger
1.2 Crested Geckos Fox Mulder, Peek & Boo
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink Indigo
1.1 Eastern Box Turtles Squirtle II & Yurtle II
0.1 Pacman Frog Buffy the Cricket Slayer
0.0.1 Sulawesi Red Toad Mr. Toad
0.2 Tiger Salamanders Tiger & Sally
1.1.2 Firebelly Newts Wayne Newton, Fig Newton, Olivia Newton John & Thandie Newton
1.1 Cats Gus & Mena