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KUTV (Salt Lake City, Utah) 24 August 06 Snakes In The Suburbs? Neighbors Fear Python Farm
Mapleton: A public meeting was cut short when tempers rose over Dan and Colette Sutherland's plan to move their online ball python breeding business to Mapleton.
Dan Sutherland held an informational meeting at the City Building on Wednesday but was unable to finish his presentation as tempers flared on both sides.
"If you're going to bring snakes here, it's going to be over my dead body," one woman shouted as she stormed out of the meeting.
The issue remains unresolved as the city attorney has said Sutherland will need a conditional-use permit.
The planning commission will consider the permit application at its Sept. 21 meeting.
Residents objected to a commercial enterprise in their neighborhood, but mostly they expressed fear of the snakes - and for their own property values.
"I don't think any of us care about the UPS truck," resident Gwen Warren said. "I'm concerned about the snakes getting out."
Warren said that would be the worst scenario, but the most likely scenario is a decrease in property value.
Dan Sutherland said the couple has never had a snake escape in 16 years of business.
Edward Christensen, who built the Sutherlands' current facility near Palmdale, Calif., and now lives in nearby Elk Ridge, said he dislikes snakes as much as anyone, but vouched for the Sutherlands' operation and their new facility.
"I saw their facility, how meticulous they are," he said. "They're very professional...and I have no fears putting my kids in their house because (the snakes) don't get out."
Some residents and city employees have accused the Sutherlands of being dishonest in the process of applying for permits, which Dan Sutherland denied.
"Our hard part was reading in the paper that we were dishonest and that we were underhanded in this, because we weren't," he said.
After the meeting's abrupt end, city officials invited everyone to move into the City Council meeting and discuss the issue with Mayor James Brady, who said the Sutherlands did all they were asked to do.
"From my knowledge and from the documents I've seen, the Sutherlands have complied with what was requested of them in applying for a building permit and a home occupancy license," Brady said.
The Sutherlands say they have spent $600,000 to relocate to Mapleton. Dan Sutherland has a business license for his commercial snake farm and has built two barns - one for ball pythons and one for the rodents to feed them - on their three-acre site.
The Sutherlands sell the snakes online and ship them to their destinations,
While the matter remains in limbo, Colette Sutherland will stay in California to run the business, and Dan Sutherland will stay in the family's new home with their four children, who began attending school In Mapleton this week.
"We made this move as a family, but now our family is split up," he said.
Neighbors Fear Python Farm

Dan and Colette, I hope all works out for the best. Prayers comin' from the north country for your success in this endeavor.Good luck.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

God knows everyone needs to fear the big bad ball python. Dan should bring in a pied to the next meeting so that everyone can see how nice these animals look and how calm they are. It's amazing how ignorance can dictate law. These are the aspects that all snake keepers and breeders need to fight. If this town is able to prevent the Sutherlands from operating there, it can be used as case law to help other communities fight for legislation to ban even more snake species. Common has there ever been an incident where a person was actually in serious harm from a ball python?
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of female holdbacks and several rescue normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I agree, have they seen a cute little baby ball python face? take a baby to the next meeting, let them see how cute and harmless a ball is

and best wishes on the new home.

Ball pythons cause me serious harm all the time!! In the wallet!

ba dum bump!

~Ang the horrible joke teller

>>God knows everyone needs to fear the big bad ball python. Dan should bring in a pied to the next meeting so that everyone can see how nice these animals look and how calm they are. It's amazing how ignorance can dictate law. These are the aspects that all snake keepers and breeders need to fight. If this town is able to prevent the Sutherlands from operating there, it can be used as case law to help other communities fight for legislation to ban even more snake species. Common has there ever been an incident where a person was actually in serious harm from a ball python?
>>-----
>>Josh & Krysty Hutto
>>J&K Reptiles

Ignorant people never cease to amaze me.

Dan and Colette - I do hope things work out for you!!!
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

6.34.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer
0.0.1 Lizards of unknown origin

If they are zoned Ag, there should be no problem. I'm surprised there isn't a complaint about the rodents instead of the snakes. The rodents and rabbits were the only complaint here, but I'm zoned ag.

Long-time lurker to the forums here. I live not far from Dan & Collette so I've been following this in the papers. I wish I'd known about the meeting I would like to have attended.

Their zoning is agricultural, so that's not the problem. If they were breeding milks or kings, no problem either. The issue is that they are breeding 'pythons' which are classified as exotic animals, so they are limited to only 5 snakes on their property (1 per 1/2 acre). Silly. The real problem lies in the fact that Mapleton is seen by many as an up-and-coming area with most of the new subdivisions having lots going for $250 - $300k and many million-dollar homes. So you've got people with money who don't know or understand or care to understand that a little ball python isn't going to break out of it's cage and start stalking the pets and kids in the area.

Good luck Dan & Collette!

I'm sure Dan and Collette could use your support

you could email them at

info@ballpython.com

and maybe attend their next town hall meeting.

I think this is total BS what these people are doing to them.

I'm sure those misinformed/ignorant neighbors would be acting just the same if they did have milks, corns or kings. But you're right...the word 'python' puts images of 40-foot terrors from cheesy B-movies in most people's minds, and so the people who don't know squat about reptiles and who also happen to "make the rules" label pythons as "exotic". As if they had special superpowers where other snakes don't. Absurd.

Just like the mayor said, the Sutherlands had all of their ducks in a row, it's just that people think that they can decide what everyone else in their neighborhood has a right to do or not do.
I live about 5 minutes from where Dan and Collette just moved to, and I'm going to make sure that I'm putting my two cents in on their next town-meeting, newspaper article, etc.

Ya' know, this is just what the doctor ordered for these Utah yuppies. Really nice people, but man they just don't handle anything out of their definition of ordinary too well.

A big, fat snake farm right between their soccer fields and community pool is just what they need.

Dusty R.

Suboc.com

where would a ball python be classified any different from any other snake--usfw? i think not--it would be classified as a class 3 animal just as any snake would be other than venomous. I think it is time Dan and Collete hire a good lawyer because this just sounds like a load of crap. If they are zoned ag and even got a permit as a reptile farm, a bunch of outraged neigbors albeit uncomfortable for the sutherlands, should not make a fly speck of a difference in the legality of their business.
Ben Siegel

It surprised me that they weren't more upset about the rodents then the snakes. I would think that there would be a much higher chance of rats getting out and "invading the town." lol.

Goodluck guys. I am sorry to hear of this.

brandon
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Morph Evolutions
www.morphevolutions.com

Italic emphasis mine, Wes

DAILY HERALD (Provo, Utah) 24 August 06 Mapleton to determine fate of snake business (Natalie Evans)
After investing $600,000 in property in Mapleton and applying for what they thought were the needed licenses, the fate of the Sutherland family's snake breeding business is in the hands of city's Planning Commission.
The Mapleton city attorney told the City Council on Wednesday that the family must get a condition use permit before their hundreds of snakes can slither into their new barn on nearly 3 acres in the city. The ball pythons still are in California, where the Sutherlands lived before recently moving to Mapleton. The hearing on the permit is set for Sept. 21.
The council asked the city attorney to review the situation after it was brought to the council's attention Aug. 16.
Dan Sutherland has a business license for his commercial snake farm and has built two barns -- one for ball pythons and one for the rodents to feed them. Sutherland held a meeting Wednesday evening so residents could ask questions about the business. He sells the snakes online and mails them to their destinations via a shipping business.
The Sutherlands' neighbors are upset because they said they didn't know about the snakes until they thought it almost seemed too late.
"Why they couldn't come out and tell me months ago when the building first started is beyond me," Richard Howell said. He would be next door to the snake farm.
Sutherland said there was no need to inform his neighbors, and that the snakes won't be a problem.
"If we weren't here today, you would never even know what I'm doing here," he said, referring to smell and escaping snakes. Residents said they aren't convinced that the snakes can't escape -- and they don't want to come face to face with a python.
"Say it's a horror movie and the snakes get out. That's the worse scenario," resident Gwen Warren said. She said the most likely scenario is a decrease in property value. Surrounding property is worth more than $300,000.
Mayor Jim Brady said a conditional use permit for Mapleton's agricultural zone allows residents to raise snakes as pets. It also states that residents can breed animals.
"You can breed your rabbits, chickens and goats, and you can also breed reptiles," he said.
He said the pythons could be classified as exotic pets, not reptiles. In that case, the city's law states that there can only be one exotic pet per half acre of property, so the Sutherlands' 2.7 acres could house five snakes.
But the Sutherlands plan on having more than five snakes. Last week, Colette Sutherland said they had 30 clutches of eggs hatch on their farm last year. Each clutch hatches six or seven snakes, so that's about 200 hundred snakes.
The Sutherlands' former neighbors in California were at the meeting to show support for them. Edward Christensen, of Elk Ridge, has been in the Sutherlands' snake facilities.
At first, he said he felt the same way as the residents when he heard about the farm.
"I know when you hear about snakes in a building, you kind of get these visions of 'Oh crap, there's snakes crawling around all over the place.' "
However, entering the barns changed his mind.
"When you see the type of operation that they have, your fears just go away," he said, noting that he has no problem bringing his children into the snake barn. Mapleton resident and zoologist Hal Black said that there is no need to worry about the snakes as a danger.
"The idea that there's some potential danger here to me is sort of funny," he said, noting that ball pythons are scared of people.

Mapleton to determine fate of snake business

This is a wake up call, we really need to get politically oraginized. As citizens we're responsable for our rights.
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Jesse Jeffcoat
Gopher Hill Herps

So does that mean if you have a German Shepard you can only have one? Its not like they are "Undocumented" Immigrents or something! I bet most of their snakes were born in California (unlike the lower half of the state)...

Since it is Utah you might also want to mention that the ratio for male/female is not 1-1 and that that you make sure to bring all your snakes up in the way that Utah understands best- polygamy!

Good luck and we are praying for you!
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-0-1 Rescued Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-2-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet, Isis
0-0-1 Rescued Fit and Trim Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

That post is as ignorant as the reaction by the Sutherland's neighbors. Stick with facts and you'll come across as not so ignorant. This isn't about Utah, polygamy, or wives...this is an issue we all could be faced with, which is people/the government trying to control our hobby.

It is my understanding that the local city code/ordinance classifies pythons as exotic pets, so that's becoming the only thing holding them up from moving forward. Otherwise they did everything as they should and followed all the rules.

Yes, the neighbors are reacting in a knee-jerk manner because they don't understand, don't be guilty of the same thing by lumping everyone in Utah into your ill-conceived notion of what we are and aren't.

People are idiots

And with movies like "snakes on a friggin' plane" out now it only makes already fearful people more fearful.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

the people of Mapleton.
according to wikipedia, the 2,000 census reported a population of only 5,809. .. my highschool was bigger than that. i guess they are youre typical stubborn god-fearing alienated little village.

Someone apparently heard that I own snakes in my townhome facility and turned me in to the association committee. They said that pythons are "extremely dangerous and exotic animals!" The people that reported me were scared that my pythons would "get loose and eat animals and kids". What a bunch of idiots. They even brought up the discovery channel special on python vs gator - saying that if they could kill a gator they could easily kill us all. They weren't even willing to listen to what I had to say about them because they were convinced they knew better than me. Luckily I got the association owners consent to have my snakes before I moved in otherwise I would be screwed. I even offered to give a tour of my snake room to show them that they are perfectly safe snakes and that my set ups are very nice and expensive and offer pretty much zero chance of escapees,,,,let alone they wouldn't make it out of that room even if they did get out. No takers on the tour idea.......they did make me get rid of my rat breeding rack though so thats a nice hit to my wallet

"SENDING GOOD KARMA YOUR WAY"

I can't believe people are still this ignorant. Oh wait yes I can.
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Dave

www.DNReptiles.com
Myspace/DNReptiles
Myspace/blog

I will keep you in my prayers Dan and Collete.
Brendan

You get so tired of hearing such nonsense. Hope your family and snakes are all happily settled very soon.

AND that stupid "Snakes on a plane" movie certainly is NO help to herpers. Geesh.