Reptile & Amphibian Forums

When I first fed my female 03 king I dusted the pinkie in calcium. Today I was handling her trying to get her used to being handled she musked me and in was a white powderie chalky substance. she was fed july 31 and august 2. The second time I did not giver her any calcium. Could the powder stuff be the calcium she was unbable to digest? if its too strong for her I will not give to her until shes egg bound or before she mates when shes old enuff.

john

you probally shouldn't do that she will be fine without the calcium you should just feed the calcium normally. her digestion system just isn't working right to digest it. maybe when she is older and the age to mate start it if that doesn't work and she does that then just don't feed her that at all just plain no calcium. if you feel you should check this up take her to the vet better to be safe than sorry

what i mean by giving calcium normally is try putting a little on the pinkie at a time maybe like the legs or head or something...... then slowly more and more intill system is getting use to it if that doesn't work either then just have her checked

If she dont get any better I plan on taking her to a vet to have her checked out. Its better to be safe than sorry.

yeap you are exactly right hey instant message me or something !@ gregkastanes@hotmail.com or shiibysweetdude@aol.com or shiiby_Sweet_Dude@yahoo.com or do you have something else?

When cal kings "musk', "poop on you" etc.. you SHOULD see that. It has nothing to do with the calcium you gave the snake (which is not necessary BTW). There is no need to take her to the Vet IMO.

Kerby...

you never know some snakes are like that man i mean it could be also something else yah it could be normal you are literally scaring the [bleep] out of him but if they do it a lot there is going to be something a little wrong. still if it happens a lot and a mean a lot you should have the snake checked.

Baby cal kings do that a lot until they settle down, even some sub-adults do that and a lot of wild-caughts do that. IT IS COMMON, no need to take to a vet IMO. You don't need to take a snake to a vet for acting normal and excreting normal fluids........

Kerby...

yeah i agree with you and you don't HAVE to take it there if you don't want my opinion i would but it's not a must or anything. as the snake get's older you will see many changes in life with him or her... every year or so should take to vet or maybe even every couple of years exspecially in an adult snake any type to just have it checked up many of my friends take there snakes to vets and to have checked up. some have found things wrong but not serious and they are really happy they did cause they could of had a dead snake in the next month of so it's up to you if you want to take him to vet not our descision or anyone elses well good luck with your snake and c ya
~!Greg!~

But you don't to take a baby snake to a vet BECAUSE it is acting normal-afterall that was the discussion at hand. Periodic checks is a good choice, I agree with you there....

Kerby...

yes thanks for agreeing with me i guess afterall you don't have to really check up on a baby snake just to early for him. if he is going through some other changes let us know i don't even think the guy that posted it first is even reading these yet lol anyways yes and the periodic thing is a great way my friends are soo glad like i said. anyways yah well if you have any other question ask us

~!Greg!~

Today she did it again and it had the yellow powdery stuff in it. She did not bite me. Tommorrow is feeding day and I probably will leave the calcium off of the pinke. Do you give your snakes any calcium? Some books say to do it cuz the pinkies are low in Calcium.

thanks,
jc

I've never given my snakes an calcium supplements. Nature DOES NOT coat the pinkie mice with calcium, why should we?

Kerby...

nature doesn't feed kings just pinkies, or any pinkies for that matter. do you recomend feeding lizards and snakes and what not? prolly not, cus of parasites and all.
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My greybands:
Prince Mandrake and Princess Caldera

I wouldnt feed my king live lizards. But if they were captive bred lizards and frozen then I might consider it. Shes well started on pinkies and I dont see why I should change it. I offer them a small amount of calcium cuz I have a book that recomends it. I dont think it could hurt with a small amount of calcium with every other feeding I put it on the feet of the pinke mouse.

Because a baby cal king does not eat other snakes, and a baby cal king can only eat baby lizards (very limited supply BTW depending upon the time of the year), so eating baby mice (available throughout the year) is more common and probably their main diet. Snakes do need calcium and they do get it through their diet. Adding a supplement is not necessary IMO.

And a yearling wild cal king in no way near the size of a yearling captive bred, so wild cal kings have to eat smaller items for a longer time than captive bred which eat bigger items at a younger age due to the abnormal growth that is common in captive breeding.

Kerby...
SNAKES OF ARIZONA ! !

I agree with you there is alot of varibables in the wild that affects a snakes diet. They have to eat whats abundant. Lizards do make up a baby cali kingsnakes diet when they are abundant at certain times of the year. I know that greybands are mostly lizard eaters but you can switch them to pinkies when they are hatchlings.

I didn't mean to suggest that anyone should feed lizards or snakes to there pet snakes, I just meant that in the wild they get a lot more variety and therefore probably a better balance of nutrients. But your right, well cared for pet snakes don't have parasite problems and they don't go hungry like wild snakes would. I sometimes supplements the pinkies with calcium, and my snakes seem quite healthy and feed well, so I'm not going to change anything in a hurry. I don't know whether calcium supplements are good or bad, I just know that I havn't had any problems.
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My greybands:
Prince Mandrake and Princess Caldera

Snakes in the wild do not get supplements, so why bother giving them? You can do what you want, but how come you aren't giving them Vitamin-C supplements, how about Viagra, Potassium, how about heavy carbs???? Is that ridiculous....... so is calcium supplements...it serves no purpose and CAN lead to problems. Some supplements in humans can only be absorbed so much and the over-dosed part is excreted out of the body (no harm, just a waste of money) and there are supplements where too much can cause problems - calcium IS ONE OF THOSE, so again, why ADD calcium to your snakes???

Your choice

Kerby...

I know that in most animals, calcium is most needed while bones are growing, since my snakes are young and growing it seems more likely that they would suffer from a calcium deficiency then from an excess.
As for cost... well, it doesn't take much to feed two snakes, but i can imagine that feeding a collection of adult snakes might get expensive.

Please explain how your snakes are experiencing a calcium deficiency? Because if you are feeding them rodents (mice or rat products) then they aren't, so please explain WHY you feel the need to add calcium, which can only harm them and not help them.....

Kerby...

I only give the calcium to young snakes and egg bound females to help them lay eggs. Pinkies are not a high in protein they are mostly water and fat.

There is no direct correlation (positive or negative) between calcium deficiency and snakes being egg-bound. Find another avenue to support your use of calcium besides "because".

Kerby...

I can call a vetinarian I know and ask them they know alot more about animals than both of us. I was just offering some advice to folks from my own experiences and you did not have to be rude about it. I do know that the egg shell it selfs needs to be in good condtion and maybe a little extra calcium wouldn't hurt. Some books reccomend it some don't depends on the writer.
I will go with what the vetinarian tells me. They went to school for animal medicine and they know alot more than we do.

That can actually ID a snake when you bring it it??? Don't bother answering becuase if a vet ask you what kind of snake is that-RUN! LOL I would say that about 90% of vets out there know VERY LITTLE ABOUT snakes and about 99% of them KNOW NOTHING in relation to a wild snake and a captive bred snake, sad but true.

p.s. for every vet that you can find that says calcium supplements ARE GOOD AND NECESSARY for a snake, I will find 10 that says the opposite, if you think that I am rude, then grow up.

Kerby...

Vets get paid less to know more, not many are likely to know anything about reptiles.
I'm not sure whether anyone has done research on whether calcium is beneficial or detrimental to captive snakes, but it might be interesting if someone did. All we seem to have right now is opinions.
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My greybands:
Prince Mandrake and Princess Caldera

I agree with you. I think calcium is important in a reptiles diet. I don't belive it hurts to give them any like in small amounts. I had an igauna to die once cuz it did not get enough calcium. Its jaws got real soft and then it stopped eating. I had to force feed it everday. Then one day I checked on it and it was dead. Pinkies are mostly fat and water. I don't want what happend to my iguana happpen to my cali king so I give her small amounts of calcium. The iguanas legs and arms were also real soft. Some people think calcium is bad but if you measure watch the amounts you give your pets its not.

laterz,
john

I agree with you dre17m n/p. I think calcium every now and then in small amounts couldnt hurt. Some of the larger snakes like boas and pythons digestive acids are so strong they can burn through metal and I dont think calcium could hurt them.

laterz,
jc

Snakes feed on rodents (a calcium source), iguanas do not so they can easily have a calcium deficiency and DO by ignorant keepers. So providing a calcium supplement to iguanas IS A GOOD idea, for snakes NO. You can't use iguanas as an analogy.

Kerby...

I am still going with what the vetinarian says when I ask them.
I am not gonna waist my time and my breath in debate.

refrain from giving out inaccurate advice on a public forum,when you lack the experience.

Cheers

Kerby...

Guess asses like you are born everyday. I have lots of animals since I was growing up including saltwater fish and I have even bred hermit crabs before so don't talk to me about experience.

and now your name calling LOL How old are you???? Who cares how many guppies you had, this IS A KINGSNAKE FORUM, just because they both have scales doesn't make them the same LOL

GROW UP DUDE!!! LOL

Kerby...

I have kept plenty of snakes before and I even caught an eastern diamond back along time ago. When you post next time leave you ego behind you. I don't see how you get out the door each day with that ego of yours.

I'm the one with a big ego? Go to another forum with your mis-informed advise - THAT IS WHAT IS AT ISSUE HERE, not my ego.

And WOW, you found a rattlesnake. So you raise guppies and you found a rattlesnake, I guess that justifies your calcium ideas? Tell me there is more, PLEASE LOL

Try again.

Kerby...

I relocate snakes all the time when people dont want them around their houses. I have been around them since I was 10.
You act like an expert on the forum when know no more than the other people out there. This forum is used for advice and if I think I can help someone then I am gonna try to help them. Any kind of animal with back bone needs some form of calcium in the diet. Everyone knows that. Get off your high horse and come back down to reality. No one is an expert on one kind of animal.
They are still things about snakes that baffle the scientist. They are still things about them that scientist are trying to learn.

I am no expert. I agree with you when the mice are adults and hoppers. Pinkies look like rubber and I know the bones in them can't be fully developed like a hopper or an adult mouse. I am willing to learn new things about these animals.

Don't try to be God! Nature does well without YOUR calcium supplements. What do you think baby snakes eat in the wild? Calcium coated pinkies?? C'mon! Re-think THAT please. Nature does well without us, get it??

And what does relocating rattlesnakes have to do with justifying your calcium supplement issue? Please defend that silly comment LOL

Does the fact that you have found a few snakes (snake relocation) in the wild makes your answers better than mine? What if you haven't found more snakes in the wild than me? Afterall you are referring to THAT like it adds credance to your posts.....

p.s. I would recommend coming up with something intellegent to say or I'm done with this thread. You make it hard to discuss the issue when you can't come up with anything valid...

Kerby...
SNAKES OF ARIZONA ! !

It is possible that some of the nutrients is lost in frozen mice. No one knows how much nutrients is lost because no one has never done research on it. Snakes do not go the a resturant in the wild and ask for a freshly thawed pinkie or freshly thawed mice. I don't know how much percent of the nutrients is lost. I also do not agree with inbreeding cuz those ppl are trying to make a buck at the animals expense. Split bellies and curved backs can result from in breeding. I only offer the calcium sometimes on the frozen thawed mice when I see no milk in their bellies after they thaw. My snake is healthy and I am happy with it.

I forgot to add that I use fozen thawed mice simply cuz its safer and you don't have to worry about parasites as much.
A snake can sometimes be bitten by a live mice if its let over night in its cage or if it does not get a good strike in.

I feed all my snakes LIVE because it is healthier for them - THAT IS A FACT, not an opinion. Parasites in captive breeding mice has NOT been proven harmful to snakes - don't make stuff up. Please check with your "snake" vet because some parasites are EXPECTED in your snake - confused? Take Biology 101.

I have fed over 5,000 live feedings a year (not counting baby snakes and their little pinkies) for longer than YOU can comprehend and how many mishaps do you think I have experienced?? NONE. It is a neglectful owner that leaves the rodents in overnight with the snake that causes harm to the snake, NOT FEEDING LIVE. There are advantages to doing either, but to slam feeding live is ignorant. There is more bacteria in a frozen-thawed mice than a live one - confused yet? Live ones have natural bacteria that snakes have fed on for longer than you can imagine, BUT when your rodent supplier kills that mouse - BAD bacteria sets in IMMEDIATELY and it can take up to 18 to fully freeze (for practical purposes here), in the mean time that mouse is ROTTING, then you take it of the freezer and thaw it out, guess what, it is rotting even MORE before it is totally thawed out and finally fed to your snake. You sacrifice convenience FOR YOU and jepordize your snake's health. Go to the corn snake forum and monitor it for about a year and see how many make a post: "my snake just regurged...."- duh!!! Keep feeding it rotten crap and YES it will regurge. I stick to live.

Kerby...

I would breed my own mice if I could but I still live at home with my folks. Either of the two frozen or live still have bacteria and parasites and theres no way to really eliminate 100 percent . Both have adavantages over one another. My main concern with live feeding would be worms in the mice and the mice injuring the snake. For now its more convenient to buy frozen.

You must be getting desperate, IT IS NOT PROVEN THAT FREEZING MICE decreases the nutritional value. The ONLY that happens is that moisture is sucked out when frozen (freeze-dry); nutritional value lossed (if any) is minimal.

Don't even start the topic about in-breeding. You're way off base. "IF" there is a bad gene, then yes that can be passed down, but IN-BREEDING IS NOT BAD, it happens in the wild ALL THE TIME. And IN-BREEDING is a good way of passing on good traits. In-breeding can pass on traits that are bad, but kinks etc.. aren't necessarily genetic. And do you have someting against people making money? Then move to another country LOL

And your statement here is rather humerous "I only offer calcium sometimes on the frozen thawed mice when I see no milk in their bellies after they thaw" - What??? You really don't have a clue, do you?

Kerby...

You can take care of the snakes you want to and I can take care of mine the way I want to who cares. Everyone takes care of their snakes differently. What works for someone may not work for someone else. I do belive inbreeding is wrong cuz simply the people want to make a buck off of the snake. People can inbred their snakes all they want to its no something that I would try.

I forgot to add theres nothing wrong with making money but if thats all you care about then thats sad. People that care about only money are sad. I hate going in Pet. Co and Pet Smart cuz these people only have the profit in their eyes.

I am 99.99% sure that there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with your baby snake. They do this...as babies certainly, all the way up to adults sometimes, get used to it. Have you ever seen your baby or any other snake have a bowel movement? Sometimes it's just liquid, sometimes it's a dark solid, sometimes it's white & powdery or chunky, even furry dependng on the prey, sometimes all of the above...and it ALWAYS smells. Don't worry about it.
One thing I will say though is don't give her the extra calcium, she has no need of it. GL to you.
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(i)Klaatu...Verata...Nichtu!(/i)

yeah i do agree with kerby to like you said sometimes during adult but kerby and I both agree that he or she should actually have the snake checked every once in a while like a year or two just in cause. even if you don't see anything wrong you should still check up on the snake internally the snake could have something really wrong. anyways good luck
~!Greg!~