Reptile & Amphibian Forums

(please note, video clip on news site references "Snakes on a Plane" and its impact on non-herp people...)

http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/wcnc-ad-8_25_06-snake.358374bf.html

From wcnc.com (charlotte nc news channel 6)

Mecklenburg County Animal Control has confiscated a 90 pound snake living in a home near Freedom Park. The snake’s owner said he had the snake well controlled and it did not pose a danger to the community.

Neighbors first saw the python on their neighbor’s Myspace.com page. The page shows the owner with the snake wrapped around his neck and lounging near him on the floor.

Animal Control Vet Mary Blinn said pet snakes, in Mecklenburg County, can not weigh more than 49.5 pounds.

Blinn said they can be dangerous to the owners and the public. “If left alone it could constrict around the neck and they would not be with us anymore,” Blinn said.

Neighbor Colette Ladd told 6NEWS she’d be afraid if the snake got out because she has cats. “I wouldn’t know how to handle the situation,” she said.

Another neighbor, Mary Steele, said “If he can maintain the surrounds and monitor it, I don’t see why he couldn’t have it.”

Animal Control said the snake has been moved to a rescue center in Tennessee.
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-0-1 Rescued Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-2-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet, Isis
0-0-1 Rescued Fit and Trim Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

That was me. I already posted about it in the main snakes forum.

I don't check the main snake form much. Sorry for a couple of the replies I wasn't trying to start anything with the post. I grew up in Charlotte and moved to Atlanta a couple of years ago. I was shocked to find out about the law, I'd never heard about it. I am sure that few people on here have any idea how screwed up the laws around there are since the City and County combined! I doubt even the police have any idea what the actually ordenences are. Right after they merged Charlotte Meck Police would put one or two cars right outside of the Pineville Police Department just because they could!
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-0-1 Rescued Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-2-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet, Isis
0-0-1 Rescued Fit and Trim Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

should have known the laws..
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1.0 pastel
0.1 suriname passed away july 24th 2006
0.1 columbian
0.1 columbian
0.1 columbian
0.1 columbian
1.0 striped columbian
16 babie boas
1.0 burmese 10'
0.1 burmese 11'
0.1 retic 13'

I do agree with that to an extent. The problem that I ran into is that I moved from an area not far away where Isis is 100% legal to an area with an arbitrary 50 pound limit. Im not giving up my animal just for a move. Sue me. I just happen to have very nosy neighbors (not the first evidence of it either).

My solution is to stop this local jurisdiction stuff where they set their own rules where things can vary within miles. Its literally a quagmire of regulations depending on what city, county, township, state, etc you are in. Legislate on a state level or not at all.

As a responsible owner of any exotic animals it is your responsiblilty to know and to adhere to the laws of the local area. If you do not agree with the laws then do not move. If you have no choice to move then the responsible thing to do is to find another location to house your snake at. Willingly disobeying the laws and the local ordinances does nothing but bring more bad publicity to our hobby. This just gives more amunition to all teh people that are against exotics. Please people, check your local laws and adhere to tehm. If you do not like them then go through the proper channels and work to get the ordinances changed but untill then follow them. That is the responsible thing to do. Todd

Todd hit it on the head....even though I'm sure the snake was well cared for, that still pales in comparison to blatantly breaking the law. Personally, I think Myspace is a nice place for child molesters/pervs/etc to hang out, and really serves no purpose at all and this is a great example of how young people show a lot of poor judgement in sharing their life with the world.

>>As a responsible owner of any exotic animals it is your responsiblilty to know and to adhere to the laws of the local area. If you do not agree with the laws then do not move. If you have no choice to move then the responsible thing to do is to find another location to house your snake at. Willingly disobeying the laws and the local ordinances does nothing but bring more bad publicity to our hobby. This just gives more amunition to all teh people that are against exotics. Please people, check your local laws and adhere to tehm. If you do not like them then go through the proper channels and work to get the ordinances changed but untill then follow them. That is the responsible thing to do. Todd
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Yes, laws are laws. We need to get through our herp heads that even though regulations for reptiles, guns, car driving, etc vary from place to place; they are still valid.

Yeah, so we should encourage people everywhere to rat out their neighbors, friends and family whenever the change presents itself should any of them break any law, however silly. Get everyone telling on everyone else like the former Soviet Union populice did. Maybe monitary rewards are in order for these upstanding citizens that did "the right thing". Perhaps even medals and junior G-Man badges should be confered upon them.

In case anyone is unclear I am being incredibly sarcastic. Sure laws are laws and all that jazz, but that guy wasn't hurting anyone and his neighbors should have left him ALONE. People can keep these graceful giants properly for 30 years in tiny homes in crowded neighborhoods and nobody would get hurt.

The only injustice I see here is that a good herper (probably) that loved his pet snake now has no pet snake and it's no longer getting the best care possible. The only black eye I see being given to our hobby is by the over-zealous press that prints misinformation and shock value content stating or implying that these reptiles will kill us or our neighbors or our neighbors' pets the first chance they get.

All of us,.. including the dudley-do-rights, KNOW that this is bs and is NOT THE CASE.

The only harm I see is the ignorance and fear being spread by the media about these virtually harmless animals. (when properly kept)

Sorry, I usually try to not get worked up, but reading stuff like this really makes me angry. Then, to see good herpers siding with absurdity like tattle tails in grade school just really gets my dander up.

I hope I didn't offend anybody specifically. These are just my own personal views on the matter.
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David Beauchemin
High End Herps.Inc
http://HighEndHerps.com

Calm down and let's not be presumptuos.

"The only harm I see is the ignorance and fear being spread by the media about these virtually harmless animals. (when properly kept)". Who provided this opportunity to the press? I do not endorse vigilantes, but the one person that could have prevented this tragedy failed to do so.

Dave, I'd love to be able to agree with you- I do,in fact, in spirit. But...
I'm in somewhat of a unique position, as I am a lifelong, formally educated herper,(breeder, consultant, etc) and I also served as a police officer for seven years in the 80's.
I knew the Herp laws in the county I lived in very well- my business depended on it.(I was breeding pythons and monitors at the same time) I have no earthly idea what the Herp laws in the county in which I was a law enforcement officer were. Absolutely no idea- and they were neighboring counties.

Here's what I DO know. If, while I was a cop, the county commissioner, mayor, any elected official, had received a series of complaints about a reptile...I would know the laws in that county to this day. Because $hit rolls downhill, and these officials would have come down on the chief, who would have come down on me, and I would have had to act. If no laws were in place, or only ineffective laws were in place, new ones would have been created very quickly.
As angry as the current situation makes me, here's the truth- you can't win if you fight the law from the "wrong" side. If you are law-abiding, and seek petitions or other lawful means of protest, you may get the laws changed in your favor...however, if you are breaking the law while fighting it, you are seen as self-serving and opportunistic.
The only real strategy we have is education- the public must be taught the truth about reptiles (and other animals) so that, hopefully, the impetus for these knee-jerk reactionary regulations will be removed.

Cheers!

James

I have to disagree with you slightly. Yes it is important to follow the laws within your area, but in that area the law is extremely difficult to find (in the correct form). Depending on who you talk to there you can get 20 different "correct" answers. Anywhere else I can understand, but the combination of city and county never worked itself out completely there.
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-0-1 Rescued Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-2-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet, Isis
0-0-1 Rescued Fit and Trim Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

If that is the case and you honestly did not know, then you have my sympathies for the loss. The result is a lesson for us all. Good luck.

thanks but I'm not the one that lost it, I just lived up there in Charlotte and had to deal with other problems that political merger created there!
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-0-1 Rescued Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-2-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet, Isis
0-0-1 Rescued Fit and Trim Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

Laws with vague wording are indeed very frustrating because it is possible to think you are a law abiding citizen only to have animal control knocking at your door. But, when in doubt, always check with the city you live in just to be safe. Animal ordinances do get too complicated but we still have to operate within the law in order to protect our rights.

>>I have to disagree with you slightly. Yes it is important to follow the laws within your area, but in that area the law is extremely difficult to find (in the correct form). Depending on who you talk to there you can get 20 different "correct" answers. Anywhere else I can understand, but the combination of city and county never worked itself out completely there.
>>-----
>>Bryan, Atlanta GA
>>
>>1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
>>0-0-1 Rescued Bearded Dragon - Zeus
>>0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
>>1-2-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet, Isis
>>0-0-1 Rescued Fit and Trim Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
>>1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
>>0-1-0 Wife
>>2-0-0 Kids
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Actually the legal situation here that the other poster pointed out has alot to do with what happened. Im new to this area and did not know about this merger of county and city ordinances farily recently. While my mailing address is Charlotte I do not live within the "City of Charlotte" so when looking at county statutes, they are VERY hard to find and are outdated (which I just figured meant they are lazy lol). It turns out that the laws of the county are incorporated into the city laws and the 50 pound part is hidden in the definitions section of the animal statutes, not the prohibited section. Its pretty convoluted so after not finding anything specific I didnt think about it again. Good lesson to be learned for others though....tough lesson for me.

I did a google search and couldn't find anything about these regulations either. I am all for following herp laws, but have to recognize a few things.
No one is a 100% innocent law abiding citizen. We can try put slip ups do occur.
You are talking about one personal pet, not a collection. The obligations are philosophically different.
The regulations are vague as described by you and probably the enforcement was fueled by more ignorance than the amount you confess to.
You are taking this very well, and understand the lesson presented to the entire herp community.
I am very sorry for the loss. I would suggest not doing the neighbor war thing. Show these idiots what a stand-up guy a snake lover can be.

did you get your animal back or can you get it back? if so i would get it back and move..i do feel for you i couldn't handle some one taking my animals from me..good luck to you..
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1.0 pastel
0.1 suriname passed away july 24th 2006
0.1 columbian
0.1 columbian
0.1 columbian
0.1 columbian
1.0 striped columbian
16 babie boas
1.0 burmese 10'
0.1 burmese 11'
0.1 retic 13'
1.1 ball pythons
1.1 bairdi ratsnakes
1.0 sav monitor 2 foot

Im not going to respond to todd because its easy to sit on your high horse from an area or situation where the laws do not affect you. I was ONCE like you but times and situations change. Please consider walking in someone's shoes before criticizing them.

My animal is now in TN at a reptile education program/rescue. She will be used in school programs and the like. I imagine if I were to move again I could investigate getting her back at that time. In the meantime I shall enjoy making my neighbors lives legally miserable.

I fill for you and also agree with you. i do not think someone should have the right to tell you what pet you can or can not have unless they are willing to not let someone have a dog. there are more people killed by dogs every year than pet snakes.i agree on Legislate on a state level or not at all.

1.0 Albino Burmese Python 14'
0.1 Albino Green Burmese Python 10'
1.0 Albino boa 1'
0.1 100% Het Albino boa 2'
1.1 Colombian redtail boa 7'

P.S take it easy on the neighbor that sided with you in the news clip...

....about you losing your pet (id probably be in jail if someone tried to take my babies lol)...and id think the neighbors cats would be much more dangerous (and just as likely to kill the snake as the other way around)...dogs can be very dangerous...especially to young children because 99 percent of people would never think that their "family pet" would ever harm their child...feral cats (that includes cats running around outside pet or otherwise)eat every living thing in sight,often carry worms and other parasites(ask anyone who has ever gotten the real catscratch fever)...

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/breaking_news/15359449.htm

This happened the same day and this is the extent of the "coverage". Figures.

dog attack stories are not as rare so they get less "face time" than a monster snake!
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-0-1 Rescued Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-2-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet, Isis
0-0-1 Rescued Fit and Trim Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

"I shall enjoy making my neighbors lives legally miserable."

I'm not exactly ENDORSING this idea, you understand :*) BUT...as a former cop, I'll just say this- investigate nuisance ordnances in your area- noise, lighting, grass watering, car parking, fence height, grass mowing/length, car washing, home condition (paint, etc) and similar- you'll be surprised at the laws that are "on the books" in most places, but are unenforced. However, if they get a complainant who knows the laws exist, they MUST enforce them. I had to deal with several "neighbor wars" as a police officer, and it was astounding how imaginative they could be!

I feel like I should be putting a disclaimer here, hehehe..

Best of luck,

James

np

You must not know me very well. I have kept herps for close to 15 years now and more then once I have had to give up my animals. Once in upstate New York when I first joined the military I had to find new homes for my snakes since I was not allowed to have them on post. I was a newly married private and living on post was my only option. Recently before deploying to Iraq again for a year I had to find new homes for my snakes since I did not have someone I felt comfortable leaving them with. So I am not trying to pretend that I am better them just that I have not willingfully violated the laws of the areas that I have lived in. If you are having trouble finding pertinent laws for your area, check with the local DNR or fish and wildlife center. It is there job to provide you with the correct answers. If you live within a city limits check with the city hall. If you find yourself living in an area that does not allow what you want to keep, then attend board meetings and get petitions. Work with the local schools and work with them about setting up educational programs. If you act professionally and go through the proper channels you can make a difference. But doing it while breaking the law will get you know where. Todd

....like they are "saving the community" from these cold-blooded killers. No reptiles larger than 49.5 lbs?? Who was the genius that came up with that? Is there a weight limit for dogs?? How about horses?? Horses kill more people every year than any "domestic" animal in the US. I deal with "animal control" and rescue places weekly, and for the most part the people who work there don't have a friggin clue about reptiles, their husbandry, or their temperament. Most of them do not know the difference between a boa and python. I can't tell you how many times I've received a call from animal control about an albino boa in their possession and that it's 13 feet long. Of course it ends up being a 6 foot long albino burm.

Yes, should have known the laws, etc. Ask Pete Kahl, Dave Barker, etc. about laws. Didn't Pete have to move (or almost had to)because of some uproar about him having his huge collection of herps? I believe Dave Barker had to testify on his behalf as well. How many cities/counties have changed their ordinaces toward reptiles in the past couple of years and folks that we know on these board had to either move or get rid of their animals? I'm soooo glad my tax dollars are at work keeping me safe from all of these eil reptiles while some dumb woman is getting her face eaten off by her pet pitbull.

I live in AZ where EVERY snake is a rattlesnake to most folks. It sure is fun listening to them say, "I don't care if that's a cornsnake and not a rattlesnake, if I saw it out side I'd run over it with my car. It's evil!" They really don't like the comparison of me running over their family dog when I try to explain that this snake is a pet just like their chihuahua. Oh well, my faith in the human race a little shaky anyway, I'm not sure why I'm surprised about anything people do or say.

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Derek Roberts
Sonoran Reptile Breeders
sonoranreptile@cox.net
On the roof of one thought
On the edge of one world
Smell the flavor of glory
Infused in people's hearts
Certified and glorified
Pushed to a higher high
Crossing desert in a second
With a single breath
---Samael "Oriental Dawn"