Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey,

I bought some Uromastyx Dust a couple of years ago and my mali loved it. I want to get some more and was wondering if you guys use it and where you get it. Deer Fern Farms is the only place I have found that carries the larger 5 oz. containers of it (and at a very good price) but I've emailed them twice in the past week or two and they haven't replied.

Thanks

I threw mine out. I know it's recommended by some people, but I've heard rumor (just hearsay from other keepers) of problems related to this stuff - digestive tract problems, sometimes serious. I did not have bad experience with it, but only used it about once a month. After hearing these rumors three different times, I decided I didn't want to continue using it.
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Torey
Eugene, Oregon, USA
1.1 Saharan Uros (Joe and Arthur)
3.1 Mali Uros (Spike, Turtle, Tank, and Lilly)
1.1 Ornate Uros (Scuttlebutt and Shazzbot)
0.1 Collared Lizard (Rorschach)
2.1 Green Anoles (Bowser, Sprocket, Leeloo)
1.1 Chubby Housecats (Roscolux and Jenny)

Sorry, I've been out of town. I did the Daytona show then spent the next week visiting other herpers in the south. E-mail me again and I'll get someout to you. My mailbox overloaded while I was gone so yours apparently didn't make it through.

As far as it causing any digestive problems - that's new news to me. We have used it weekly for several years with no problems. They make several very similar formulations for many species and I've never heard of any being a problem.

We like Nekton as well but it's spendy and hard to get. If you're worried about Uro Dust,try Nekton. Mardel is ok as well.

Doug

Actually I have to correct myself - I typed that reply too quickly late last night and spaced out on something we looked at awhile back. There was one breeder that hatched a group of Saharan Uros season before last that eventually lost them all to what appeared to be a gut impaction (or possibly gut paralysis - it wasn't definitive on necropsy). She assumed it to be related to using Uro Dust which she had not used on hatchlings prior to this clutch. The problem is we couldn't come up with a method of how the Dust could have caused the problem. But at the same time we had also heard that a bearded dragon breeder lost a clutch to similar circumstanses and at the time was feeding the Beardied Dragon formulation (BD Dust also from T-Rex)to the hatchlings. Thus it seemed worth looking into.

So I met with the person who formulates Uromastyx Dust and we went over the ingredients list one by one to try to see if anything was a potential problem. Everything in it is human diet grade, tested safe for human consumption which is much more rigorous than pet grade, plus everything is in other diets (in different concentrations or formulations but still the same ingredients) with no reported problems. So there didn't seem anything that would be a causitive agent.

The only times we've seen similar symptoms in hatchlings(and it was in Saharans) was with bacterial/yeast infections which produce a sticky stool (which is also what both these people reported). I should note however that we also don't use vitamin suppliments on hatchlings less than 3- 6 months old (it's too easy to overload suppliments on animals that tiny) so we can't verify that the suppliments couldn't be a factor, however unlikely.

If you're feeding a well rounded diet, they really shouldn't need any vitamins when that young so if you choose to use any brand, use it very sparingly on little guys.

We are still trying to come up with the best feeding regiment for rearing uromastyx long term so we plan on doing an inhouse study this fall/winter on the effects of 3 diets on growth rates and overall health. The first group will be fed a predominately Mazuri Tortoise Pellets diet (and no other suppliments except a little Miner-ALL once per week) with just enough greens to get them switched over to the pellets. The second group will be fed a normal vegitarian diet with Uromatyx Dust and Miner-All but no Pellets or mixed veggies in the diet. The last group will have a diet alternating between leafy greens and mixed vegies dusted with Miner-All and Uro Dust whic is our current method for juvies. We'll have approx 25 fresh hatclings (less than 2 weeks old) per group so we should get some good data. We firmly believe diet is still a weak link in consistantly breeding these guys so per usual we are trying new ideas to try to fine tune our system.

Along those lines, also note "Reptigreens" "www.reptigreens.com" is now selling organically grown food plants for Uro's. We met with the owner in Daytona and her products seem worth checking out!

Keep Herping!

Doug
Deer Fern Farms

Hey Doug,
We'll all be looking forward to the results of your "tests." Obviously, there's alot more that needs to be learned. I can't stop thinking we lost Peach due to some dietary deficiency leading up to egg-laying. A problem we've had is that foods sprinkled with Miner-All or a combination of Herptivite/Repcal aren't as palatable, leading to less overall food consumption & negating the whole idea of supplementation. We've been using Uro-Dust &/or Jurrasivite for the past couple years & while we've not a clue as to just how effective they are, for certain they're better tolerated, tastewise. What say you?
Good to see you at the Expo & hope you did well. The green guy is doing super, BTW!!
D&L.

I believe that I am the breeder referenced in Doug’s post so I would like to clarify a few things.

The first is that the issue involved a group of juvenile geyri-not young hatchlings. I believe I started using the Uro Dust sparingly at about 5 or more months of age with a group of geyri I hatched out in 2004. Anyone that knows me will vouch for the fact that I do not believe in heavy or constant supplementation so even though this product was touted as a superfood that could be used daily- I treated it like a supplement and used it very sparingly approx 2-3 times per week. Previous to this, the only supplement I was using was Miner-ALL once or so per week. Prior to using the Dust I had consulted with Doug regarding his use with this product with juveniles. I was informed that he had used it with animals of this age with no adverse health implications.

Necropsies revealed absolutely no obstruction or gut impactions in the juveniles. The juveniles had been kept on heavy weight Kraft paper and dried foods were restricted. Feces appeared normal in consistency and color upon examination. Various pathology reports showed no indication of parasites including protozoa.
The only indication of something amiss was the sudden onset of runny stools quickly followed by constant straining with no fecal output. Urates and clear fluid.was still produced by the animals. It almost appeared as if peristalsis shut down in a sudden catastrophic event.

My mind raced with several wild suspicions of ‘what’ could have resulted in this malady. New uvb lighting (uvb or uvb toxicity?) and a brand new cage that was only rinsed with water (chemical contamination?) were two of the possibilities that sat along side the Uro Dust suspicion. Rogue virus?- possible but the juveniles had no exposure to other uromastyx and no other animals presented with symptoms during or after this event.

Approx 5-6 months later I decided to once again try the Uro Dust with a group of uromastyx that I had hatched out that spring/early summer. These were the ‘blacks’ which were growing like weeds and hardy as hell. Within a couple of weeks of using the dust, several of the uros in that clutch produced loose stools and began to strain. I immediately stopped the use of the product in my entire reptile room. The symptoms subsided within a week and I have not had any issues with any of the animals from that clutch (or any clutch for that matter) since that time.

I was approached by someone at the Daytona show shortly after I stopped using the Uro Dust in 2005 with unsolicited data informing me that she and others were having health issues with a Bearded Dragon Dust. This information was shared due to the fact that I was helping out with a booth that sat near the manufacturer’s table. I did not discuss my situation or suspicions with this individual before, during, or after this conversation. This person felt strongly enough that the product was causing health issues that she brought up the matter to a total stranger due solely to seeing the overhead sign of the manufacturer at a nearby booth.

A representative of the company that manufacturers this product verified hearing of multiple complaints similar to what was shared with me. He suggested that Doug and I work with the creator of this food. I did not pursue that recommendation and simply left the unopened 2.5 lb container that I had just ordered sit in my refrigerator. Doug changed his site to suggest the supplement only be given once or twice weekly rather than daily and that it not be given to uromastyx under 16 weeks old.

Do I have proof that Uro Dust resulted in the demise of my clutch- nope. Do I know whether there might be issues with specific ingredients such as the hempseed meal, marigold extract, the various probiotics, or the use of aspergillus niger extract- nope. If the dust was responsible for the adverse situation with the clutch- do I know why some juveniles might have a reaction where other juveniles and adults do not- nope. Did I analyze the dust to verify whether the potentially toxic vitamins like d3 and A might have been out of proportion or whether there might have been toxic contaminants in the dust I was using that should not have been there- nope. If there was a problem with the dust do I know whether this might have been limited to one specific batch and the rest of the dust is fine- nope. I merely stopped using the product and have not recommended the use of this product to anyone else since.

Thanks to Debb and Doug for all your insights. Just thought I'd chime in with a positive experience. I have been reading this forum for a couple years off and on without really contributing, I would like to start changing that. I have a pair of CB Ornates of Audrey Vanderlinden stock. I received them 3-4 years ago as "well-started" hatchlings. I have been supplementing their diet pretty much every-other day with uromastyx dust since it came on the market. I have had no health problems with these animals whatsoever in that time. They really seem to love it, licking their plates of the stuff that falls off the food; so I hope it proves to be safe in the long run. I also use tortoise dust for my "sensitive species", Indian Stars and Madagascar Spiders, in the same manner and have had no problems.
Also, I work in a biochemistry research lab in Boston and have access to equipment that could analyze the dust, although I haven't worked on dietary supplements before. If anyone has any suggestions, I can look into what to test. Thanks.

Brian

Mike, My e-mails to you keep bouncing back. Call me at 360 435 2679