Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello everyone....

I had Zoe outside today for some sun. We had been out for about 30 minutes or so when he started making the same motion he makes when he is drinking. He did have some water droplets on him from rain that had blown down out of the tree in the front yard...so I thought maybe he was thirsty.
We got his water syringe, and let him have a drink, which he was quite eager about.
Then he continued to make the swallowing motion for quite a while afterward (maybe 5 minutes)
Next thing I knew....bleeeeeeeh...up came about 2 or 3 teaspoons of yellowy coloured liquid (??bile??). No solids....but then again, he really doesn't eat a solid diet so to speak. Just the repta-aide.
Soooooooo....my question is....should I be as freaked out as I am? I've never seen him do this before. Could it just have been from being outside, possibly stressed? Or is this an ominous sign?
He's back inside now...his colours are dark. but his respiration seems normal, his mouth is closed...and he didn't continue to retch...he just barfed, and was done with it.

any thoughts about this would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks everyone....
-----
Kim

i don't know how old your cham is, but younger chams have very sensitive stomachs, it's probably nothing. wait a few days, and see what happens. if it happens frequently contact a vet.

Hi Kim,

Gee, maybe he just wants to keep you on your toes! haha! He is thinking "she hasn't been worrying about me enough lately - this should get her!"

I certainly cannot comment on a cham puking but when Kaiya aspirated she was acting the same way - I wish she had puked - maybe she'd be alive

I DO have some questions for you re: intensive care. As you have seen, Bart seemed to be doing better, but I think he is backsliding a bit and I am worried. Now granted, he is 1/10 the size of Zoe (or smaller(!) but how do you give him water? After what happened to Kaiya I am afraid to do anything more than give him the neo-cal which I just place on his tongue and let him do the rest. I have also tried to mash up ph crix in pedialyte and put them on his tongue - it's been a couple days since he has accepted any - he spits them out. I am just so afraid to put any liquid in his mouth. I actually gave him a bath in pedialyte today to try and keep him hydrated.

So what if your syringe setup? Also, is it Flukers Repti-Aid he is on? Have you found it to work well (tho' I guess it does since he survived all his past troubles!)? How do administer it?

Thanks, and hopefully the barf episode was just a fluke!

lele

>>Hello everyone....
>>
>>I had Zoe outside today for some sun. We had been out for about 30 minutes or so when he started making the same motion he makes when he is drinking. He did have some water droplets on him from rain that had blown down out of the tree in the front yard...so I thought maybe he was thirsty.
>>We got his water syringe, and let him have a drink, which he was quite eager about.
>>Then he continued to make the swallowing motion for quite a while afterward (maybe 5 minutes)
>>Next thing I knew....bleeeeeeeh...up came about 2 or 3 teaspoons of yellowy coloured liquid (??bile??). No solids....but then again, he really doesn't eat a solid diet so to speak. Just the repta-aide.
>>Soooooooo....my question is....should I be as freaked out as I am? I've never seen him do this before. Could it just have been from being outside, possibly stressed? Or is this an ominous sign?
>>He's back inside now...his colours are dark. but his respiration seems normal, his mouth is closed...and he didn't continue to retch...he just barfed, and was done with it.
>>
>>any thoughts about this would be greatly appreciated!!!
>>
>>Thanks everyone....
>>-----
>>Kim

Maybe you're right...maybe Zoe was feeling a little neglected, and thought he'd just remind me WHO exactly is the top priority (Him, of course!)

He seems like his usual self right now (by the way, Zoe is 2.5 years old, to the other person who replied...sorry, I can't remember your screen name right now)...regular colours, perched in his usual spot. When he's sleeping, or just "hanging around" he hangs onto his schefflera in a vertical position. I would think he'd be more comfie resting horizontally, but he always sleeps, and sits, hanging onto a branch, with his head pointing straight up, and his butt pointed straight down. It's really weird to see him sleeping like that.

Annnnnyway....to answer your questions lele...
I give Zoe his water out of a syringe. I just slowly drip the water down over his nose, usually just slightly below the point between his eyes. It runs down his nose, and over his lips. Eventually he will start to drink on his own. Meaning rather than letting the water just drip off of his chin, he will start to open his mouth and catch the drops. I never let it go faster than a steady drip...never a stream of water. I just keep refilling the syringe until he stops drinking. Mind you, the syringes I use are quite large. I use a 10ML syringe for water, and a 5ML syringe for food.
You could probably get away with those tiny medication syringes the vet gives with their antibiotics...I can't even remember the volume on them...but they are about the size of the syringe a diabetic would use.
As far as the repta-cal, yes, that is what Zoe is still surviving on. Unfortunately. He eats about 3 or 4 ML of that per day. Mixed fairly thick...thich enough that it doesn't drip on it's own.
I very gently put my index finger on one side of his mouth, and my thumb on the other, putting slight pressure on the hinge of his jaw, and he will automatically open his mouth for me.
There is no longer any "force" involved (I don't have to pull down on his dew lap anymore). Once his mouth is open, I put small amounts of the repta-aide into his mouth, and he just licks it off of his lips, sometimes he'll even lick it off of a tongue depressor.
I honestly can't see though how living on this artificial diet can be good for him. I really wish I could get him to shoot for some crickets, mealies...anything!
Dr. Ivan suggested that I dust his crickets with the repta-aide, and then force feed him them...and maybe he will associate one with the other.
It's something I have yet to do though, as I know that trying to get crickets into him will be a huge fight!

Why do you feel Bart is backsliding? I hope it's just you being a nervous mom...and that Bart is really okay!
I know what you mean about worrying about Bart aspirating too...I would just be a WRECK trying to assure it didn't happen again.
I know I NEVER want to see Zoe go into respiratory arrest again...that was absolutely terrifying!
And when he threw up on me today...that's ALL I could imagine happening all over again.
I was SO thankful he just threw up, and stopped retching. I would of burst into tears and been completely useless if he had of keep going.

Best of luck to you and Bart lele!! We all know you're doing everything within your power to make sure he's okay.
-----
Kim

here's something for you. the schifflera plant is known to cause vomiting in small children. closely examine your plant, and if any bite marks are to be seen,get it out and get something else, like a hibiscus. if it is a veiled, they are known to make snacks out of their plants, so get it out now.

If I remember right Zoe has been on repta-aid for quite a while it has tons of vitamins and calcium and for long term use you might want to alternate with smushed bugs. That is what I do for my problem child ( He is just like Zoe. I smash a crickets head and stick it in there. Repta-aid is great but maybe it is irritating his liver with too many vitamins and he needs more variety at this point. Don't dust the bugs if you are giving repta aid.

I was wondering about your cham...the one you have to feed like Zoe.
How much do you feed at one time...how many times per day?
Also, how do you get it into him? Do you use a syringe, or just let him feed off of a tongue depressor?

How long have you had to feed him for, and what started his need to be hand fed?

I know it's a lot of questions...but thank you for any information you have.
-----
Kim

I use the chart by weight in the Repta-aid but mix it a bit thinner so I can put it in a syringe. I don't feed him every day because it is stressful for him. I usually feed every other or every three days. I offer food in his cage but the only thing he eats by himself is waxworms and they are too rich to offer every day. He has also made himself sick eating them so now only one or two a week. With the crickets I hand feed four or five per feeding six at the most. Once in his mouth he will chew and swallow them, most of the time. He will not open up willingly, thus the stress. I have to grasp his head from behind and with my fingers on the sides of his head. He opens his mouth to bite and then i shove in the cricket or syringe. I put the repta-aid way back a bit at a time. He swallows it and I wait a few min and repeat. I usually feed 3 to 4 ml and I weigh him a lot to keep his weight at about 125 - 130 grams (he is a male panther)
This came about because from the time I got him (Mercy buy at a show) He could not shoot his tongue at prey. It only comes out 1/2 an inch or so and misses, shoots to the side. He used to snap at prey and catch it but at some point I think he got frustrated and stopped. He also is a chore to water. He can't seem to figure out how to drink from a dripper. I have to spray and spray him and drip water at least two times a day directly on his mouth because he can't find it on his own. I have been hand feeding him for a long time and he is probably about a little over a year old. It's a good thing for him that he is so gorgeous looking that I don't get fed up with him. I think his problem may be in his family tree. Maybe not enough branches? Maybe it was a palm tree and he is his own grandpa? Hope this helps.

I have had this happen a number of times when I first started. I used to give them water with a spray bottle or syringe directly. They'll drink as much as you give them, and someimes, you can give them too much. When they drink too much, they'll kinda lean or bend over and gag up a clearish liquid (if they haven't eaten anything) that looks like the saliva from the aliens in Aliens(with sigourney Weaver).
Sheffelera Actinophylla CAN cause vomiting, but most of us use the other one.
If he did it right as or right after you gave him water, it was most likely from drinking a bit too much, or the water could have been too cold--did that one myeslf once too.

Yes, it was right after I gave him the water. Within 5 minutes.
My daughter is convinced I activated his gag reflex by rubbing under his chin.

Zoe doesn't eat anything on his own. Ever... that doesn't come out of a syringe....so it wouldn't of been the schefflera.
but...just in case he was over come with the urge to eat his schefflera, I did check it all over...and it's not missing any branches even...so I think I can exclude that one. It was a good idea though.

I'm hoping it was just an isolated incident...maybe a combination of him being outside, and drinking. I've never fed him, or given him water outside before....and I don't think I ever will again.
-----
Kim