Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well as you know a few of my guys have been pretty ill recently, including the loss of little miss.

We have done a course of panucur 2.5% liquid for 5 days as suggested by the vet.
We only finished this the day before yesterday but for the guys that do not seem so well, i'm not seeing much improvement.

Before the Panucur they were on Baytril again what the vet suggested, this also seemed to do nothing.

I have been reading on your site and i think i have found out what the problem is.
I have been looking closely at their eyes and it appears as it there is sort of like a film, or skin across part of the eye.

they have been on sand for 4 years, until now so as a precaution i moved them off, but like you have said before i dont think its the sand.

Then you went onto say about breathing,
I have only noticed this a little and only in one of them, but her breathing seems very deep and an effort almost compared to everyone else's so i am thinking do they had a respiritory infection.

Would this be contagious (spelling) and it would it explain loss of appetite, loss of weight and also quiet behavoir,

I seem to think it would.

butttttttttttttttttt, they have already been on Baytril with no joy, I have seen Flagyl mentioned, would this be better ??

I know the vets are the best option but like i have sort of said, it feels like i have to do the research as they do not really know about the collareds.

Also, i have giving them daily food soups made from the guys of crix and wax worms, mixed with water, calcium powder and crit care.
They aren't overly happy about it but i have got a bit of a method now so am hoping i can get the weight back on.

Is this doing them any damage and also how much would you suggest giving them.

bearing in mind that they are not getting any of the skins, legs etc, its only the pulb that i am managing to get out into the syringe.

they keep this down everytime as well, and are easily taking 1ml, but again could i do more harm than good if i tried say 1.5ml etc.

Andy

I would like to see a few more buddies jump in here and see what they all seem to think. It's so hard to figure whats wrong with them over the net. And also not being a Vet we can only give our thoughts/ideas from our own experiences.

If they had/have parasites the panacur would help, it may be slow, as far as them starting to get an appetite back and put the weight back on. Also you were giving them antibiotics right before or / at the same time. I think all this can zap them some what. You have to get plenty of water into them when on medications/ antibiotics, they can become dehydrated from them.

** Many people who have used panacur or wormers, or antibiotic meds, have complained afterwards their lizards still seem letharic and lack appetite, and will give them probiotics. Treatment with any oral antibiotic can kill the beneficial bacteria that are naturally present.

"Probiotics", replace the GOOD bacteria in the digective system that the medicines have killed off. Sort of like what Yogart does for us. You can read about it I will link you there.
It may help them to feel like eating again. I think if you do not see alot of the symptoms below, then they just may be not feeling so well since the worming and batril.
I have not ever used this, YET, I have ordered some, but have heard of alot of success stories from bearded dragon owners. Just a thought.

**IF this is a resp infection/ bacterial infection, YES it can spread. Look for the labored breathing, sandy or closed eyes, mucus in mouth.... Holding head up towards ceiling..
Probiotic

-----
PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

one thing that i have noticed this summer and god knows i have had alot of lizards to deal with is that when they are getting respiratory infections they will breath with their mouths closed but their chin moves in and out. they will also breath deeper from their lungs but that can be misleading if they had just run around alot or are sitting with their rib cage expanded to absorb more heat. pay attention to the chin/throat area.

i know you think they are all sick but perhaps you should separate them anyway. rubbermaid tubs make good temporary cages. antibiotics did wonders for jolly, midge, griffin and ivan but they didn't do anything for stew, gracie, gertie or walter. i wish i could tell you why but i don't know.
-----
vonnie
***The first law of dietetics seems to be: if it tastes good, it's bad for you. — Issac Asimov ***

How long were they on the Baytril?

My approach would be to hit them with everything you've got, especially if you don't have a definitive diagnosis. I would go ahead and give them Flagyl, and I would restart the Baytril and keep them on it for at least a week if not longer. Check the temps in the cage, and maybe keep them on the warm side. For very sick animals, I don't give them a cooling off period at night, I just keep a heating pad under the tank so they stay warm even when the lights are out.

The food you're giving them is probably fine. However, I have used canned Hill's prescription A/D mixed with water and liquid (or powdered) calcium, and I have had much success with that mixture. I feed at least 1cc (1ml) a day. If you give them too much, they'll let you know by vomiting. Usually there's no harm done.

Good luck,

élan
-----
5.6.0 Collareds
1.2.0 Leopard Lizards
1.0.0 Mali Uromastix
1.2.0 Green Anole
1.0.0 Chinese Dwarf Newt
1.0.0 White's Treefrog
1.0.0 Fire bellied toad
1.0.0 Treefrog (Alabama native)
Even More Felines
1.3.0 Canines
1.0.0 Equine

They were on the batryl for a week, however as of last night i have re started them back on this and will continue until i run out, probably 10 days.

The food soup i have giving does also contain calcium powder and the other vits they have on the crix, so is pretty much liquid form of what they currently have.

I have been doing 1-1.5 ml per day so glad you have mentioned that figure as being ok.

Well, you're doing exactly what I would do. I've saved a lot of lizards with this protocol, but unfortunately I haven't been able to save them all. I think you're doing a good job. I wish you the best of luck.

élan
-----
5.6.0 Collareds
1.2.0 Leopard Lizards
1.0.0 Mali Uromastix
1.2.0 Green Anole
1.0.0 Chinese Dwarf Newt
1.0.0 White's Treefrog
1.0.0 Fire bellied toad
1.0.0 Treefrog (Alabama native)
Even More Felines
1.3.0 Canines
1.0.0 Equine

Thanks for everyones help.

and comments like the last one which have been forth coming from quite a few people now are really uplifting as this isn't a fun time at all.

Seems so strange that for 4 years we have not had an issue yet all of a sudden, whack,

weirdest thing of all is that right nor dave is thrieving, never looked so hansome, big, colourful etc.

On a slightly possitive note, since the start of the 2nd hit of antibiotics, stumpy's breathing pattern deff seesm to be getting better and much less gapping and popping, although he chest still seems puffed out a bit to much compared to the others.

we even saw her running about and doing the small but mostly unsucessful jumps that we loved her for so much before these problems arrose.

her eyes are still not good, but i am more worried about getting other things fixed than them at the min, and we can hit them afterwards.

They are all taking ok to being force fed, must admit if any of you ever need to do this, put a cotton bud in between their jaws makes it so much easier to pass food into their stomach than just using fingers.

the food soup stuff i am making is pretty gross but i love my little critters and will do anything i can to keep them going.

I am going to leave them a week off of all meds when the batryl runs out as they must be getting sick of all this stuff, and see if that helps, and after that possible consider the flagyl.

I have also sourced a comp where stool samples are carried out so we are on pop watch, although not easy as because we are feeding this soup stuff, the stools are mainly water based as i am taking out most of the stuff they cant diggest before they get it.

Anyway, i'll keep plugging away,

you have all been great, specially Kel and Eve, your both Gems.

Andy

Yay any improvement however small has got to be a good sign and also inspiring for the others who have unfortunately had similar problems this year.