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Originally posted 10-19-05...SUPER long

Darin Chappell Aug 30, 2006 04:56 PM

It's a long post, but you may find it useful if you didn't read it last year.

I hope this helps some of you all...

____________________

Posted by: Darin Chappell at Wed Oct 19 14:15:01 2005

I was contemplating writing a post about this very subject over the last couple of days, but having written similar ones so often over the last several years on this site and others, I just didn't find the proper motivation to do so. Since the motivation has now been supplied, let me offer a few other thoughts to the newer corn enthusiasts among us:

I. There is only ONE hard and fast rule about cornsnakes, and that is that there are NO hard and fast rules about cornsnakes!

I have seen more things being done in "corn-dom" that SHOULD NOT be able to happen...and yet, they happen ALL the time! So, for every "Thou shalt not..." you hear about corns, I can probably show three or four successful keepers doing just that, which was forbidden. Some of my favorite "Rules" are:

You must never handle your cornsnake for 24hrs (or 48, 72, or whatever...) after it has eaten!

You must ONLY use aspen as bedding material!

You must ONLY feed mice to your corns!

You can NEVER breed a female corn that is less than 250g (or 36" long, or three years old, or whatever)!

The list could go on and on...

I am not saying that these "rules" do not provide good guidelines to follow. In fact, for the novice keeper, these probably ought to be seen more as "rules" until they are sophisticated enough in their understanding of corn husbandry to begin to experiment a little outside of the box.

Where I have my problems with the "rules" has to do as much as with those who are spouting them as with the "rules" themselves. More on that in a minute!

II. RESEARCH IS YOUR FRIEND!!!!!!!!!

It has been said by more than one person here that there is conflicting information being given in answer to several questions on the board. Part of that is because of the reality of the first part of this post, and part of it is because of what I am getting to in a bit. However, conflicting information is ONLY a problem if you RELY upon it!!!

It is the job of every keeper of animals to be as informed and educated on the husbandry of those animals as is humanly possible. That includes...but is certainly not limited to...asking questions on this site! Read a book, go to a keeper's home to see first hand what is being done, GOOGLE up some information sheets...do almost ANYTHING to find out how to take care of an animal (preferably BEFORE, but certainly AFTER its purchase), since it will be in YOUR care!

If you rely ONLY on this site's forum, you WILL be unprepared for your animal's needs. That is because this forum is not set up to be the single source of cornsnake information, and even though lots of good things can be found here, those valuable posts are not pinned to the top of the forum for your use. Even if they were, you'd still need help from SOME source to learn how to customize what you read to your own situation.

Research, research, research!

III. The definition of a cornsnake "expert" is: Someone, who has been posting on this forum for more than two weeks longer than YOU have!

Too many people here think that just because someone answers a question being asked, that this means the person offering the answer has any clue at all as to what he/she is talking about, when that is certainly NOT a guaranteed truth!

Here's the basic cycle of posters, folks:

Newbie: New owner, usually (but not always!) someone who has no idea about corns, but thought they'd be "cool" and bought one without any research whatsoever. These guys ask anything and everything CONSTANTLY!

Newbie-plus-two-weeks: These guys are the ones who were asking the questions two weeks ago, but are now endowed with the "rules" they had quoted to them (by previous "newbie-plus-two-weeks" people!). These folks LOVE to answer all of the newbies questions with the "FACTS" they have absorbed through their extensive education on this site.

Newbie-plus-one-year: These people are starting to learn how the system works, and have actually began to think outside of the box. They have gotten past the "newbie-plus-two-weeks" period and are now tired of answering the same questions over and over. They are actually now thankful for the "newbie-plus-two-weeks" people, because they answer most of the questions on this site so the "newbie-plus-one-year" people don't have to!

Newbie-plus-two-years: These are the folks who are breeding for the first time, and have an entirely new set of questions to ask. The difference is that now they ask questions of substance, and they know to whom the questions ought to be directed. Lots of genetics questions involving how it all works, rather then just "what do I get if I cross..." type questions, from these folks.

Newbie-plus-several-years: These are the folks who post the least and have the most to say. They are the ones that usually stay out of the fray unless 1) There is something blatantly wrong being passed off as a "rule" by an "expert" of two weeks, or 2) There is a question asked that really needs a specific answer from someone who has "been there" and "done that." These people tend to fade on and off of this site (and others), because they get a belly-full of all the back and forth that goes on between people in this business/hobby/passion, and may appear to be a "newbie" when they come back after a long absence. One of the most fun things on these sites is to see a "newbie-plus-two-weeks" person trying to correct the writings of a recently returned "newbie-plus-several-years" person!

Newbie-plus-several-decades: These are the only real experts among us. They hardly ever post, unless they are addressed by name. While they are truly busy trying to make money for their families, they usually take the time to answer questions from people here on this site, because they truly care about the animals and those who keep them. While enough good cannot be said about these folks...they are not infallible, and whatever they say does not become the new sets of "rules" to start the process all over again...though that is exactly how some folks here take them. Sad, really...

OK. Notice that everyone listed is a "newbie" of some sort?!? That's because there is ALWAYS something to learn, ALWAYS somewhere to go to for help, ALWAYS some way to become better at keeping these animals we all love! NO ONE has it all down pat, folks...least of all those who have only been keeping these animals for a very brief period of time, and so it is up to YOU to figure out what YOU need to do in YOUR situation with YOUR cornsnakes!

There's lots of people here to help, but that's all it is. YOU still have to wade through all of the posts, all of the books, and all of the "experts" to determine what is best for YOU.

Then...

Come back and tell us what you did, and we'll try not to make more "rules" out of the experience!
-----
Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742
-----
Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

Replies (26)

chakup Aug 30, 2006 06:03 PM

hahaha nice write up. It's very very true of most anything.

draybar Aug 30, 2006 06:04 PM

>>I remember the post and STILL think it an extremely valid, well written and informative post.
Good job!
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

cka Aug 30, 2006 06:35 PM

Colorfulcorns Aug 30, 2006 06:56 PM

Great post and it's very true....This forum needs more people like you to explain things.....
BTW....I did all kinds of research BEFORE I got my first corn....now I've had them for two years....still learning.....

The only people that don't have something to learn are dead!!!
-----
CD
Corns(Adults)
1.0 Snow
0.1 Banded Motley het Amel
0.1 Blizzard het Anery A
Corns(Sub-adult)
1.0 Bloodred het Pewter
1.0 Anerythristic

salemserpent Aug 30, 2006 08:50 PM

What I'd like to know is what prompted this re-post?
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1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Bearded Dragon
0.1 Blizard Leopard Gecko
1.1.1 Corn Snakes (2 Blood Red, 1 Albino)
1.1 Ball Python

phiber_optikx Aug 30, 2006 10:48 PM

Darin meant no offense. Honestly this forum gets new people in "waves." We will have the same people on here for a few months and then they stop posting (graduate to newbie plus 1 year) Then we get about 10 new people all at once Nothing against you or anyone else. I would actually look at it more as a "Welcome to the forum!" post.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

As we say in Missouri, "I ain't goin back to Missouri!"

Darin Chappell Aug 30, 2006 11:26 PM

I can't really recall which post it was, but someone said something about answering the same qustions over and ove again, and I just got to thinking that maybe it was time once more.

Sorry, if my doing so offended anyone...
-----
Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

salemserpent Aug 31, 2006 12:38 PM

No i didn't take it as an offense, nor directed at me. I 've kept herps for years. I'm just new to THIS board. No worries.
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1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Bearded Dragon
0.1 Blizard Leopard Gecko
1.1.1 Corn Snakes (2 Blood Red, 1 Albino)
1.1 Ball Python

DonSoderberg Aug 30, 2006 09:14 PM

Thanks. Well written and poignant.
South Mountain Reptiles

xblackheart Aug 30, 2006 09:55 PM

hey, love this post. Lots of good info, and true about most everyone. I wont say everyone because there is not an ALWAYS nor a NEVER in life. Like the saying goes, the only things you can count on are death and taxes. Actually, not totally sure about that taxes part. Some people don't pay them. So Death....., well, I knew someone who's religion said you don't die, so, see what I mean.

The point being, I think most of us have followed that path of Newbie.

"Hi, my name is Misty, and I am a herp addict". I think I qualify for the "newbie-plus-a-few-years" catergory.

I agree that there is always something to learn and that is why I am glad there are those who are the "newbie-plus-decades" out there to help. There are areas of corn snakes that I am a total newbie and I will be the first to admit it. One being Genetics. It is just not my thing. Very interesting, but it is constantly growing.

Again, Great post. Sorry I missed it the first time!!

-----
****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Yesterday was the deadline for all complaints"

Rivets55 Aug 30, 2006 10:37 PM


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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

phiber_optikx Aug 30, 2006 10:54 PM

Hey Darin,
That is as good a post as it was last year. I remember it too (which says an awfull lot!) You just forgot one stage that EVERYONE goes through...

Newbie-with-new-camera: This stage happens within a week of buying a new camera. This is the stage where posters will post as many pictures as they can to make the rest of us jealous.


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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

As we say in Missouri, "I ain't goin back to Missouri!"

xblackheart Aug 30, 2006 11:37 PM

I agree to that. All stages of newbie, if they get a new camera, go through the newbie-with-a-new-camera phase! lol
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Yesterday was the deadline for all complaints"

Darin Chappell Aug 31, 2006 10:31 AM

Yeah and I need to add "newbie plus enough time to have his camera become antiquated and cannot get pictures out to prospective customers nearly fast enough" too!

ARRGGGGHHHH!

:O


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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

Pastorpat Aug 31, 2006 11:46 AM

Camara???? What's a Camara???? Great post Darin!!!

Pat-a newbie for 40 years!!!!

STEVES_KIKI Sep 01, 2006 11:35 AM

i just got a new camera....but i dont know how to resize the pics.... i was gonna put pics of my babies on here...but so much for that...i'm one of those girls who doesnt understand cameras and when i think i'm figuring it out....the batteries die... gosh darnit.... one day 100 years from now i might post pics...

~kin
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~SNAKIES~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Corns:
.1 Normal (Gertrude) [just a pet...she started it all]
1. unknown hypo? normal? (Romeo)
1.2 Miami Phase (Hector, Emily, Charlotte) thanks jeff!
1. Amel het Blizzard (Dunesbury)
1. Classic het Hypo, poss het Amel, Anery (Cobra)
1.1 Classics (Henry VIII, Cassy [Emilys babies])
.1 Amel (Pepperoni)
1.1 Hypo zig zags poss het Caramel (Bernard, Abegail)
.1 Classic{reduced black} het Hypo, Stripe (Gracie Lou)
1.1 Anery het Motley (Lleroy, Persia)
.1 Candy cane (no name yet) [Just a pet]
1. "Classic" looks like an Abbotts (no name yet)

Rats:
1.1 Black rats (Willard, Cecily)

Cal Kings:
1.1 Striped Cal Kings (Dweezil, Skunky)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~LEOPARD GECKOS~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. Normal het Midnight Blizzard (Mr. Spot)
0.1 Blizzard (Blitz) was attacked by a cat and still living!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~TURTLES~~~~~~~~~~~~

.1 white cheeked mud (Opel)
.1 snapping turtle (no name, ideas welcome)

phiber_optikx Sep 01, 2006 02:48 PM

I use photobucket. You don't have to resize the images then.
-----
0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

As we say in Missouri, "I ain't goin back to Missouri!"

HerpZillA Sep 01, 2006 02:50 PM

Newbie learns

html

(body)OOPS don't work here(/body)

Hmmm new tags

[img}www.mystuffonkingsnake.com/mypicture/cutesnake.bmp{/img]

Why won't it post?

-----
God is the architect to genetics. And just as we learn the building he has constructed, I think he adds a room on once in a while just to mess with us. He does like to laugh at us. It is so easy.

Thanks
Big Tom

www.herpzilla.com

Jan Grathwohl Aug 31, 2006 06:44 AM

Very well written - and so very true - actually not only among corn-keepers, but among all areas of the hobby
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Regards

Jan Grathwohl

HERPBREEDER.com - The Herpetological database

GECKOHOLICS.dk

tspuckler Aug 31, 2006 08:12 AM

...I didn't catch that one last year.
Thanks for reposting!

Tim

Darin Chappell Aug 31, 2006 10:28 AM

...........
-----
Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

garweft Aug 31, 2006 11:46 AM

n/p

Spardawolf Aug 31, 2006 03:41 PM

and I like it now. Well said, and well written.
-----
Paula
"ALWAYS LEARNING"

Have a GREAT day!!!!!!!

izora Sep 01, 2006 03:33 AM

very little lol. I find I'm always learning something no matter which breed of snake I currently have in my home. I started with a burmese, I now only have one corn and will forever have only one corn! I'm not patient enough for several hatchlings, I haven't the time for breeding projects, I love my snake and don't want to share my personal time with more than one! So I will forever be one of those newbies that ask the questions that are answered over and over and over because I'm just not around that often. That being said I've been a browser for a few years now, I still remember Clint Boyer being the breeder that got me so interested in snow corns. I love how pink they are as babies! I looked for a couple years before I decided on buying one and I found Frosty in a pet store with a pretty extensive feeding schedule on the side of tank. Knew he was a keeper for em and took him home rather than one of the newer hatchlings. He'd been there awhile, I actually left him there for a little bit and came back to find he was still there! Anyway, great post!

HerpZillA Sep 01, 2006 02:45 PM

That was a great post. I really get to appreciate it as I work in a pet shop and we mainly do herps. And I have to deal with MANY MANY people of all those levels.

So many people just want to hear 1 answer, because they want it easy. And it is just not that way.

I tried to figure where I was on that ranking. After many years with herps, I'm still a newbie in many areas. Things I just not have done. And in some ways, I'm a newbie -2 years, as I have to unlearn many things I had learned in the 70's that were wrong.

I love to learn, and I take information and try to learn, NOT as fact. I take information, and build on the collected opinions of teh best options, on a particular subject.

And I'm not to proud to say, in many realms I do not know sheot! lol

Outstanding post!
-----
God is the architect to genetics. And just as we learn the building he has constructed, I think he adds a room on once in a while just to mess with us. He does like to laugh at us. It is so easy.

Thanks
Big Tom

www.herpzilla.com

carl3 Sep 02, 2006 01:45 PM

I just get SO busy with almost 200 snakes now and LOTS of new projects including mouse breeding. PLUS, teaching/work and my young apprentice....just no time to post. I actually spend 99 percent of my time lurking in the boa forum and maybe, just maybe, I'll get back to doing the Week in Review over there. Unfortunatly there is only so much time in a day.

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Sincerely, Jason
www.NortheastSnakes.com
NortheastSnakes@verizon.net

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