Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi there

I'm discussing with some people about the subspecies of the following snakes.

I would say those are L. m. mexicana:

http://www.schlangenforum.ch/wbb2/4images/data/media/44/DSC07516.JPG

http://www.schlangenforum.ch/wbb2/4images/data/media/44/DSC07518.JPG

And this one is a L. m. greeri.
http://www.schlangenforum.ch/wbb2/4images/data/media/32/10.05.06_1.jpg

What do you think?

Greez,
Cyrill

The first pic appears to be a atypical mex-mex. Not from, Valley of the phamtoms. Possibly for Arrmarillo(sp). Or just not a real normal individual, which is very common.

The second one appears to be from a Q-king from northwest of Amelco(again sp)

The third is a greeri.

The top two appear to be wild caught. black wash gives that away. But could be just ugly captives, hahahahahahahahahaha.

The problem with the top two is, both Mex-mex and Q-kings, come from a small area, and in reality, their range is very large, so they do not have to look like, what people think are normal and fit the names we make up for a tiny local. In reality there is a huge variation in mexican montane kings. Cheers

First one looks like a L. m. "mexicana" with some abberrancies.

Second one looks like a cross L. m. "ssp" X L. ruthveni. Ruthven's are supposed to have a black head, sometimes with a little white on the snout and/or red flecking. It could very well be just an L. m. "thayeri" milksnake phase. I would also not rule out an L. m. "mexicana" from an uncommon locality.

Third one looks like a fairly typical L. m. "greeri".

Thanx for you answers. You helped me very much. The people i talked about this problem are assured that the first two were greeri's and the last one a thayeri. I hope they see know that it isn't like they thought.

Regards,
Cyrill

I found this pic and wonder what it could be. for me it doesn't look like a clean greeri because the pattern do not go till the belly. But the coloration and the build looks like one - so what is it?

greez,
Cyrill

You must first find out if they are wild caught or captives.

If that is a wild caught, then it appears to be an animal from Saltillo, questa, Quatro area, these are tweeners between alterna and thayri. Actually they are neither, but exsist without a name.

If in captivity, it could be a greeri cross or a bizarre greeri.

You need to understand, THESE ARE KINGSNAKES and kingsnakes, vary in color and pattern like crazy, from year to year, from clutch to clutch, and from the same clutch or local. Finding oddballs that do not fit the very few names that cover thousands of locals is very common. All you have to do is go look. In captivity, there are so many crosses, that without a history, its not likely you can ever id an unknown snake.

So unless you post a pic of a typical specimen, from known locals, you will not recieve much accurate information.

By the way, Years ago, I spend lots of time in montane king habitat. I brought back sheds for our local university to ID. Much to my surprise, they could not tell one form from the other. They also could not tell mex kings from milksnakes by their sheds. I was very disappointed. I learned with many reptiles, those most important factor is LOCAL. In otherwords, its one of these, because it found where these occur. Cheers

Hi all
Thanks for you postings.
I’m the owner of this snake, and have a question for clarification: How likely is it that it is a thayeri (I bought is as a CB thayeri?
And, if definitely not, why?
Thanks for your answers.
Cheers
Michael