Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I noticed this growing over the past few weeks any idea why this thing would be developing on his neck. Also, does anyone know any specific reason they leave their jaw open a little or is that normal. Its always slightly open when he is in his cage. He closes it when I touch him. The growth on the neck is very soft.

I have never seen my panther keep his mouth open at all unless he is venting heat while basking.

The growth could be an edema. Have you ever supplmented him with Vit. A?

http://www.all-creatures.com/456012.html

http://www.chameleonjournals.com/vet/index.php?show=5.Vitamin.A.html

Also go to google and type in chameleon endema and see if any pics resemable what your chameleon has.
info on edema

Hi,

Luna, my (now deceased) veiled had a little bit of her mouth open which developed around 6 months. Feenie, who posts here, has her brother and apparently he has the same thing - it looks like they are smiling - but in their case I am guessing hereditary. In your case it could be the beginning of MBD. I don;t know if it is the angle of the pic, but his joints in both front and back legs in that first one do not look too good. What do you feed and what do use for gutload and supplementation? How old is your UVB light and what brand and output?

As for the bulge I would definitely look into edmea/vitamin A. Got to the site timbo gave you as well as those listed in the link below. Do you have a good cham vet?

here are some not-very-clear pics of Luna's open mouth.

and another

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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan and Stan Jr.!
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

I agree with Lele... his legs look swollen and bowed. The same with his jaw.. it looks bent. How do his teeth look?? How are his nails?? Are they long and sharp or broke and brittle. Let us know what your supplimenting him with and how often. We may be able to determine something from there..

Here's a pic of Stitch with his underbite..
I love this picture of him... he looks ready to slap me

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TFFF
(Tootie Freakin' Fruity Feenie)

haha! the back hand slap!!!
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan and Stan Jr.!
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Looks like he's the MAN, LOL lots and lots of personality, hehehee

I like Stitch,
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PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

I am crying like a baby! I have never been so happy to see a cham in my whole life! My baby boy looks great!

I'M BAAAAACK! sort of.

I don't know if anyone remembers me or not but I was a regular on here for a long time.

I went through some major personal problems and stopped posting.

I had to sell most of my babies and finally lost the couple of older ones that I kept so i don't have any chams at the moment.
I will be getting back into chams soon hopefully because a lady that bought one of my babies (panthers) a few years ago is now breeding her and has graciously offered to send me a few babies because she says I helped her so much in the past. I have just gone through the worst year of my life but my love of herps kept me going and basically saved my life. I still have a few beardies including Darwins younger brother left (different clutch) Sorry LeLe the little one finally passed. I also have a few ball pythons and a pair of corn snakes left too.

I am not in my old e-mail address right now. I am staying in West Palm with a friend for a few weeks. LeLe this is probably the only way to get me by comkputer right now or you can still reach me by cell phone. The best time to call is between 10 am and 4 pm That phone number may not be good too much longer.

That would be Gular edema (Accumulation of fluid in the neck region). It can be serious so take care of it quickly. Read the articles:

"Edema by Kenneth Lopez, D.V.M."
http://www.chameleonjournals.com/vet/index.php?show=7.Edema.html

"Vitamin A: by Kenneth Lopez, D.V.M."
http://www.chameleonjournals.com/vet/index.php?show=5.Vitamin.A.html
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CANADIAN SILKWORMS

When I first got him,about six months ago, his front legs were not very strong. Since then they have improved significantly, but seem to be reversing over the last two weeks. Most of his nails are gone, although I blame the screen cage he is in, that could be wrong. I have him under a ZooMed Reptisun 10.0 that is pretty new. I use Herptivite and Repcal calcium with D3, 1 to 1 4 days a week and Miner-All I two days. I mist him 2-3 times per day, and he drinks from the bottle in the morning. I haven't given him his morning drink since I posted and the extra skin seems to have shrunk, so I'm gonna stick with just misting and see if maybe he was over hydrated. I read the edema articles and have actually seen it in a friends female panther. His swelling seems to be further back than hers was (Vit A quickly fixed her chameleon). When I first noticed this I started using the Herptivite to try to fix it, but there is not any improvement in his jaw, and the neck as I said is only better since yesterday. I have him in a room that stays about 80-84, and keep a basking light on for 2 hours in the morning and 2 in the evening (heats the cage to about 90). Does anyone think that he may be getting to much D3? A 10.0 puts out a lot of UVB. I think it's unlikely, but he gets that 12 hours a day and eats all his vitamins, so he shouldn't be getting MBD from lack of anything. Thanks for all of your input.

Ok, it sound like you have made him healthier from the time that you received. However, it sounds like you went to far and hes now been over supplimented, which can be just as dangerous.

The problem with the mouth seems more like something do with the lip rather than jaw. As long as the jaw is not soft, then

-Nails coming out can be a result of lack of calcium. Athough its usually combined with bad cage screen or stree to the toes and feet.
-Don't cut back on the water. You should increase it. It was not over hydration. And if it is Edema as all the other users, (Myself included) think it is, the extra water intake will help diminish it.
-Edema is OVER supplimentation. Herptivite should be cut in half.
-He is not getting too much UV
-You can leave the basking bulb on longer than just the two hours. It creates a temperature gradient that allows the chameleon to choose what temperature they want to stay at and does not force them to bask only in the morning and afternoon.
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CANADIAN SILKWORMS

Sorry, Forgot to ask weather or not the legs were bowed from his past injuries befor eyou received him. Your writing made it sound as if you had already "healed" him through Metabolic Bone Disease and that this new gular swelling was a new recent problem... If you havent then you'll need to create a proper treatment with calcium and he should be treated by the Vet in my opinion.
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CANADIAN SILKWORMS

Thank you all for your input. I will cut back the Herptivite to every five or six days and see how that works out. The swelling on the neck is pretty much gone now, after cutting back the water. I will raise the water back up and see if it was coincidence or not. He suffered from MBD in the past and recovered, so his legs are a little off. Everything else is good. His jaw is not soft, I agree that it is a lip issue. I will keep you all posted on his condition in a couple weeks. Thanks again for the help!

From the look of your chameleon in the photo, he has MBD (or has had it). The front (left) leg is showing bowing and signs of MBD and parted lips that are curved open like that are usually indicative of MBD too. Nails missing too.

I gutload all the insects I feed to my chameleons before I give them to them. I use Rep-cal calcium a couple of times a week because insects have a poor ca/phos ratio. I also dust the insects lightly with Rep-cal's vitamin powder twice a month. Because my chameleons don't get sunlight, I also dust lightly with their cal/D3 powder twice a month.

I use a reptisun 5.0 bulb.

You are dusting with D3 products (mineral and rep-cal) more often than I am and not using a calcium product(unless you forgot to mention it)...so that is likely part of the problem.

I wouldn't cut out the water....it shouldn't be part of the problem. They need to be well hydrated.

Too much supplementation can be part of the cause for edema....but it can be caused by kidney problems too....and kidney problems can be caused by too much vitamin D3 (from supplements).

You said..."he gets that 12 hours a day and eats all his vitamins, so he shouldn't be getting MBD from lack of anything"...MBD is usually the result of an imbalance between calcium, phosphorous, vitamin D3 and vitamin A (mainly). (Its talked about in the articles that Will posted for you to read.).

UVB from artificial lights or sunlight is needed so that the chameleon can produce vitamin D3. They need the D3 to be able to use the calcium....but that means that they need enough calcium in their system to be able to use. UVB rays shouldn't pass through glass or plastic or the UVB is no good. D3 from UVB can't be overdosed because the body's systems prevent it.....but D3 from supplementation can be overdosed and build up in the kidneys. Vitamin A from beta carotene sources can't build up in the system but vitamin A from preformed sources can. Vitamin D3 and vitamin A are somewhat antagonistic to each other (read the articles for more about that). Insects (as I said above) have a poor calcium/phos. ratio...so we dust the insects to make up for it. So to keep the chameleon from developing MBD the levels of calcium, phos., vitamins A & D3 need to be kept in balance.

Temperature and hydration also play a part. Proper temperatures aid in proper digestion....and water helps too.

Hopefully getting things back in balance and getting the amount of supplementation right will bring your chameleon back into good health!