Reptile & Amphibian Forums

like it does in boas?
I know hypo is recessive in corns and co-dominant or dominant in boas...
Boas:
Hh'aa = sunglow
h'h'aa = sunglow

What I want to know is:
Corns:
hhaa = sunglow???

Thanks!
Nicole
-----
Nicole Gustafson
Coal's Constrictors (formerly Coal's Cold-Blooded Creations - changed to simplify and there is another 'Cold Blooded Creations'...I'm not trying to hide from anyone or anything!
Cook Minnesota

BOAS:
Gavin, Lydia, Hailee, and Jade ~ Dumeril's
Wyatt, Sheena, Shaylee, and Mary Jane ~ Columbian
Desdemona ~ Peruvian
Madeline ~ Surinam
Avery ~ Bolivian

CORNS:
Kiana and Sierra ~ Amel
Casper and Kissa ~ Anery
Tripp and Scarlet ~ Bloodred
Aidan ~ Ghost
Skylar ~ Anery Hurricane
Ariel ~ Striped Amel
Lily ~ Blizzard
Ambur ~ Creamsicle
Neva ~ Snow
Sage ~ Normal

BEARDED DRAGONS:
Divine ~ Silver Pastel
Christopher ~ Sandfire Red x Sandfire Yellow
Baby ~ Snow

CAT:
Morgan ~ Calico Tabby

DOGS:
Maximillion Vasco von Katzel and Len-Mar-'s Lexed Leas ~ AKC German Shepherds

HORSES:
Mateo ~ Palomino Paint Quarter Gelding
Chic ~ 3/4 Quarter 1/4 Arabian Bay Mare
Rayna ~ 7/8 Quarter 1/8 Arabian Palomino Filly
Dallas ~ Palomino Quarter Gelding
Banner ~ Red Dun Quarter Mare
Chance ~ Buckskin Dun Quarter Stud Colt

hypo amel = normals het for both
Sunglows, from what I have gathered can be a number of things:
amelanistic bloodreds,amelanistics selectively bred to show little or no white or amel (hypo masked?) or amel with some type of hypo influence. I think it just depends on who you ask or where you get a sunglow from.
I know if you bred: Amel het hypo X Hypo het amel =
25% amel, hypo (masked)
25% hypo het amel
25% amel het hypo
25% het amel, het hypo

because I have a normal het amel, anery, hypo and a ghost het amel....

1/16 of their offspring would be hhaaRr >>> sunglow?
1/16 would be hhaarr >>> sunglow snow?

So, if I understand right, these could just be regular amel and regular snow, but if the hhaaRr shows no white then it could be considered a sunglow???
BTW, what is a sunglow snow? Would this just be a snow?

Thanks...
Nicole
-----
Nicole Gustafson
Coal's Constrictors (formerly Coal's Cold-Blooded Creations - changed to simplify and there is another 'Cold Blooded Creations'...I'm not trying to hide from anyone or anything!
Cook Minnesota

BOAS:
Gavin, Lydia, Hailee, and Jade ~ Dumeril's
Wyatt, Sheena, Shaylee, and Mary Jane ~ Columbian
Desdemona ~ Peruvian
Madeline ~ Surinam
Avery ~ Bolivian

CORNS:
Kiana and Sierra ~ Amel
Casper and Kissa ~ Anery
Tripp and Scarlet ~ Bloodred
Aidan ~ Ghost
Skylar ~ Anery Hurricane
Ariel ~ Striped Amel
Lily ~ Blizzard
Ambur ~ Creamsicle
Neva ~ Snow
Sage ~ Normal

BEARDED DRAGONS:
Divine ~ Silver Pastel
Christopher ~ Sandfire Red x Sandfire Yellow
Baby ~ Snow

CAT:
Morgan ~ Calico Tabby

DOGS:
Maximillion Vasco von Katzel and Len-Mar-'s Lexed Leas ~ AKC German Shepherds

HORSES:
Mateo ~ Palomino Paint Quarter Gelding
Chic ~ 3/4 Quarter 1/4 Arabian Bay Mare
Rayna ~ 7/8 Quarter 1/8 Arabian Palomino Filly
Dallas ~ Palomino Quarter Gelding
Banner ~ Red Dun Quarter Mare
Chance ~ Buckskin Dun Quarter Stud Colt

.
-----
Nicole Gustafson
Coal's Constrictors (formerly Coal's Cold-Blooded Creations - changed to simplify and there is another 'Cold Blooded Creations'...I'm not trying to hide from anyone or anything!
Cook Minnesota

BOAS:
Gavin, Lydia, Hailee, and Jade ~ Dumeril's
Wyatt, Sheena, Shaylee, and Mary Jane ~ Columbian
Desdemona ~ Peruvian
Madeline ~ Surinam
Avery ~ Bolivian

CORNS:
Kiana and Sierra ~ Amel
Casper and Kissa ~ Anery
Tripp and Scarlet ~ Bloodred
Aidan ~ Ghost
Skylar ~ Anery Hurricane
Ariel ~ Striped Amel
Lily ~ Blizzard
Ambur ~ Creamsicle
Neva ~ Snow
Sage ~ Normal

BEARDED DRAGONS:
Divine ~ Silver Pastel
Christopher ~ Sandfire Red x Sandfire Yellow
Baby ~ Snow

CAT:
Morgan ~ Calico Tabby

DOGS:
Maximillion Vasco von Katzel and Len-Mar-'s Lexed Leas ~ AKC German Shepherds

HORSES:
Mateo ~ Palomino Paint Quarter Gelding
Chic ~ 3/4 Quarter 1/4 Arabian Bay Mare
Rayna ~ 7/8 Quarter 1/8 Arabian Palomino Filly
Dallas ~ Palomino Quarter Gelding
Banner ~ Red Dun Quarter Mare
Chance ~ Buckskin Dun Quarter Stud Colt

because I have a normal het amel, anery, hypo (pictured) and a ghost het amel....

1/16 of their offspring would be hhaaRr >>> sunglow?
1/16 would be hhaarr >>> sunglow snow?

So, if I understand right, these could just be regular amel and regular snow, but if the hhaaRr shows no white then it could be considered a sunglow???
BTW, what is a sunglow snow? Would this just be a snow?

Thanks...
Nicole

-----
Nicole Gustafson
Coal's Constrictors (formerly Coal's Cold-Blooded Creations - changed to simplify and there is another 'Cold Blooded Creations'...I'm not trying to hide from anyone or anything!
Cook Minnesota

BOAS:
Gavin, Lydia, Hailee, and Jade ~ Dumeril's
Wyatt, Sheena, Shaylee, and Mary Jane ~ Columbian
Desdemona ~ Peruvian
Madeline ~ Surinam
Avery ~ Bolivian

CORNS:
Kiana and Sierra ~ Amel
Casper and Kissa ~ Anery
Tripp and Scarlet ~ Bloodred
Aidan ~ Ghost
Skylar ~ Anery Hurricane
Ariel ~ Striped Amel
Lily ~ Blizzard
Ambur ~ Creamsicle
Neva ~ Snow
Sage ~ Normal

BEARDED DRAGONS:
Divine ~ Silver Pastel
Christopher ~ Sandfire Red x Sandfire Yellow
Baby ~ Snow

CAT:
Morgan ~ Calico Tabby

DOGS:
Maximillion Vasco von Katzel and Len-Mar-'s Lexed Leas ~ AKC German Shepherds

HORSES:
Mateo ~ Palomino Paint Quarter Gelding
Chic ~ 3/4 Quarter 1/4 Arabian Bay Mare
Rayna ~ 7/8 Quarter 1/8 Arabian Palomino Filly
Dallas ~ Palomino Quarter Gelding
Banner ~ Red Dun Quarter Mare
Chance ~ Buckskin Dun Quarter Stud Colt

>because I have a normal het amel, anery, hypo (pictured) and a ghost het amel....

Nice looking corn.

>1/16 of their offspring would be hhaaRr >>> sunglow?
>1/16 would be hhaarr >>> sunglow snow?

Bern Bechtel used ax for anerythristic in his 1989 paper in the Journal of Heredity, not r.

I get 1/8 sunglow and 1/8 what you are calling sunglow snow. All the babies would be hypomelanistic. Half the babies would be heterozygous anerythristic, and half would be anerythristic. And at the amelanistic locus, 1/4 of the babies would be normal, 2/4 would be heterozygous amelanistic, and 1/4 would be amelanistic. Multiply the fractions of the desired genotypes together to get the final result (1/1 x 1/2 x 1/4 = 1/8).

>So, if I understand right, these could just be regular amel and regular snow, but if the hhaaRr shows no white then it could be considered a sunglow???

>BTW, what is a sunglow snow? Would this just be a snow?

AFAIK, it would look like a snow. Over in the king forum there has been a discussion of what to call the combination of the three mutants. AFAIK, there has not been a consensus there, and it hasn't been discussed here in the corn snake forum. Calling it amelanistic, anerythristic, hypomelanistic would be accurate although cumbersome.

Paul Hollander

"I get 1/8 sunglow and 1/8 what you are calling sunglow snow. All the babies would be hypomelanistic. Half the babies would be heterozygous anerythristic, and half would be anerythristic. And at the amelanistic locus, 1/4 of the babies would be normal, 2/4 would be heterozygous amelanistic, and 1/4 would be amelanistic. Multiply the fractions of the desired genotypes together to get the final result (1/1 x 1/2 x 1/4 = 1/8)."

I dont know how to do this on here, but i will try. Hh Aa Rr x hh Aa rr

hAr (x4) har (x4)

HAR HhAARr HhAaRr
HAr HhAArr HhAarr
HaR HhAaRr HhaaRr
Har HhAarr Hhaarr
hAR hhAARr hhAaRr
hAr hhAArr hhAarr
haR hhAaRr hhaaRr
har hhAarr hhaarr

Wouldnt this make (just phenotype)
3/16= normal
3/16= anery
1/16= albino
1/16= snow
3/16= hypo
3/16= ghost
1/16= hypo/albino
1/16= hypo/albino/anery

???

What is wrong with my table? I sure hope I haven't been doing this wrong all along as I just did over 100 pages of gentics tables for my boas and corn snakes!!

Nicole

PS table didnt turn out exactly how I wanted to when I previewed it! sorry!

-----
Nicole Gustafson
Coal's Constrictors (formerly Coal's Cold-Blooded Creations - changed to simplify and there is another 'Cold Blooded Creations'...I'm not trying to hide from anyone or anything!
Cook Minnesota

BOAS:
Gavin, Lydia, Hailee, and Jade ~ Dumeril's
Wyatt, Sheena, Shaylee, and Mary Jane ~ Columbian
Desdemona ~ Peruvian
Madeline ~ Surinam
Avery ~ Bolivian

CORNS:
Kiana and Sierra ~ Amel
Casper and Kissa ~ Anery
Tripp and Scarlet ~ Bloodred
Aidan ~ Ghost
Skylar ~ Anery Hurricane
Ariel ~ Striped Amel
Lily ~ Blizzard
Ambur ~ Creamsicle
Neva ~ Snow
Sage ~ Normal

BEARDED DRAGONS:
Divine ~ Silver Pastel
Christopher ~ Sandfire Red x Sandfire Yellow
Baby ~ Snow

CAT:
Morgan ~ Calico Tabby

DOGS:
Maximillion Vasco von Katzel and Len-Mar-'s Lexed Leas ~ AKC German Shepherds

HORSES:
Mateo ~ Palomino Paint Quarter Gelding
Chic ~ 3/4 Quarter 1/4 Arabian Bay Mare
Rayna ~ 7/8 Quarter 1/8 Arabian Palomino Filly
Dallas ~ Palomino Quarter Gelding
Banner ~ Red Dun Quarter Mare
Chance ~ Buckskin Dun Quarter Stud Colt

Somehow I thought that both parents were hypomelanistic instead of one being heterozygous hypomelanistic. The correct fraction was 1/16 in both cases instead of 1/8, just as you posted originally.

Paul Hollander

it saves me a whole lot of re-doing!!

Thanks for all your help Paul!
Take care,
Nicole
-----
Nicole Gustafson
Coal's Constrictors (formerly Coal's Cold-Blooded Creations - changed to simplify and there is another 'Cold Blooded Creations'...I'm not trying to hide from anyone or anything!
Cook Minnesota

BOAS:
Gavin, Lydia, Hailee, and Jade ~ Dumeril's
Wyatt, Sheena, Shaylee, and Mary Jane ~ Columbian
Desdemona ~ Peruvian
Madeline ~ Surinam
Avery ~ Bolivian

CORNS:
Kiana and Sierra ~ Amel
Casper and Kissa ~ Anery
Tripp and Scarlet ~ Bloodred
Aidan ~ Ghost
Skylar ~ Anery Hurricane
Ariel ~ Striped Amel
Lily ~ Blizzard
Ambur ~ Creamsicle
Neva ~ Snow
Sage ~ Normal

BEARDED DRAGONS:
Divine ~ Silver Pastel
Christopher ~ Sandfire Red x Sandfire Yellow
Baby ~ Snow

CAT:
Morgan ~ Calico Tabby

DOGS:
Maximillion Vasco von Katzel and Len-Mar-'s Lexed Leas ~ AKC German Shepherds

HORSES:
Mateo ~ Palomino Paint Quarter Gelding
Chic ~ 3/4 Quarter 1/4 Arabian Bay Mare
Rayna ~ 7/8 Quarter 1/8 Arabian Palomino Filly
Dallas ~ Palomino Quarter Gelding
Banner ~ Red Dun Quarter Mare
Chance ~ Buckskin Dun Quarter Stud Colt

I lack paper and do three locus problems in my head. 8-(

Paul Hollander

>like it does in boas?
>
>I know hypo is recessive in corns and co-dominant or dominant in boas...
>Boas:
>Hh'aa = sunglow
>h'h'aa = sunglow

The symbol h' is not the symbol for salmon (AKA hypo). Rich Ihle followed standard genetics symbology rules and used Sa for salmon. See his paper in the Journal of Heredity. The symbol for the normal allele at the Sa locus is Sa with a plus sign as a superscript. Unfortunately, I haven't figured out how to do superscripts or plus signs on the kingsnake.com forums, yet.

There is a pretty good set of symbology guidelines on the ballpython.com web site. Or you could go whole hog with the professional version (for mice) on the Jackson Labs web site. I don't have the URL handy at the moment, unfortunately. But if you want it, I can get it.

>What I want to know is:
>Corns:
>hhaa = sunglow???

Separating the genotypes of the various loci with a space (hh aa) makes it easier to make sense of the whole thing than running it all together does.

Carl3 has a good explanation of sunglow in corns.

Paul Hollander

now I am thoroughly confused!!!

I learned hypo as h'h' (dom aka super) or Hh' (Co-dom)
is this wrong?

Nicole
-----
Nicole Gustafson
Coal's Constrictors (formerly Coal's Cold-Blooded Creations - changed to simplify and there is another 'Cold Blooded Creations'...I'm not trying to hide from anyone or anything!
Cook Minnesota

BOAS:
Gavin, Lydia, Hailee, and Jade ~ Dumeril's
Wyatt, Sheena, Shaylee, and Mary Jane ~ Columbian
Desdemona ~ Peruvian
Madeline ~ Surinam
Avery ~ Bolivian

CORNS:
Kiana and Sierra ~ Amel
Casper and Kissa ~ Anery
Tripp and Scarlet ~ Bloodred
Aidan ~ Ghost
Skylar ~ Anery Hurricane
Ariel ~ Striped Amel
Lily ~ Blizzard
Ambur ~ Creamsicle
Neva ~ Snow
Sage ~ Normal

BEARDED DRAGONS:
Divine ~ Silver Pastel
Christopher ~ Sandfire Red x Sandfire Yellow
Baby ~ Snow

CAT:
Morgan ~ Calico Tabby

DOGS:
Maximillion Vasco von Katzel and Len-Mar-'s Lexed Leas ~ AKC German Shepherds

HORSES:
Mateo ~ Palomino Paint Quarter Gelding
Chic ~ 3/4 Quarter 1/4 Arabian Bay Mare
Rayna ~ 7/8 Quarter 1/8 Arabian Palomino Filly
Dallas ~ Palomino Quarter Gelding
Banner ~ Red Dun Quarter Mare
Chance ~ Buckskin Dun Quarter Stud Colt

>I learned hypo as h'h' (dom aka super) or Hh' (Co-dom) is this wrong?

It's not standard genetics symbolism. The first letter in the symbol for a dominant or codominant (no hyphen in codominant) mutant is always upper case, and has been ever since Mendel. The mutant's name and symbol are assigned in the original paper describing the mutant phenotype and inheritance. Ihle et al named the mutant salmon back in 2000 in the Journal of Heredity. That leaves hypomelanistic (in boa constrictors) available for another mutant with a similar phenotype. And the symbol could be either Sa or S. As I recall, they started with Sa and halfway through changed to S.

As the lab mouse's genetics are, AFAIK, the most studied among the vertebrates, I tend to follow symbol conventions that the mouse geneticists use. They symbolize the mutant gene with one to several letters in an abbreviated form of the mutant name. The symbol for the locus is the same as the symbol for the first mutant discovered at that locus. That's generally standard throughout genetics. And adding a plus sign as a superscript to the locus symbol is the symbol for the wild type or normal allele. There is variation from species to species about that.

BTW, "homozygous" means having a pair of identical alleles. "Super" is a synonym for "homozygous codominant". Using the symbology above, h'h' is homozygous, aa is homozygous, and HH is homozygous. Hh' and Aa are heterozygous because the two members of the pair of genes are not identical. Dominant refers to a gene that produces the same phenotype whether homozygous or heterozygous and has since Mendel. I see the incorrect useage a lot on the boa forum. I don't know how it got started, but it's wrong. Check any genetics text.

Paul Hollander

http://www.reptimania.co.uk/genetics2.htm

damn them!!

It has taken me a long to even figure out the little I know, and it has all been from that site because it is the only one I have found that I can understand!
-----
Nicole Gustafson
Coal's Constrictors (formerly Coal's Cold-Blooded Creations - changed to simplify and there is another 'Cold Blooded Creations'...I'm not trying to hide from anyone or anything!
Cook Minnesota

BOAS:
Gavin, Lydia, Hailee, and Jade ~ Dumeril's
Wyatt, Sheena, Shaylee, and Mary Jane ~ Columbian
Desdemona ~ Peruvian
Madeline ~ Surinam
Avery ~ Bolivian

CORNS:
Kiana and Sierra ~ Amel
Casper and Kissa ~ Anery
Tripp and Scarlet ~ Bloodred
Aidan ~ Ghost
Skylar ~ Anery Hurricane
Ariel ~ Striped Amel
Lily ~ Blizzard
Ambur ~ Creamsicle
Neva ~ Snow
Sage ~ Normal

BEARDED DRAGONS:
Divine ~ Silver Pastel
Christopher ~ Sandfire Red x Sandfire Yellow
Baby ~ Snow

CAT:
Morgan ~ Calico Tabby

DOGS:
Maximillion Vasco von Katzel and Len-Mar-'s Lexed Leas ~ AKC German Shepherds

HORSES:
Mateo ~ Palomino Paint Quarter Gelding
Chic ~ 3/4 Quarter 1/4 Arabian Bay Mare
Rayna ~ 7/8 Quarter 1/8 Arabian Palomino Filly
Dallas ~ Palomino Quarter Gelding
Banner ~ Red Dun Quarter Mare
Chance ~ Buckskin Dun Quarter Stud Colt