Reptile & Amphibian Forums

You 2 guys have given me such a laugh during this whole debate, thank you for that.

You represent your country very well and I think that the people of the USA are in your debt forever.

You both keep bringing up the word CREDIBILITY, and you definitley are a credit to you country, I applaud and congratulate you both for making the whole world feel much better with your insightfull thoughts and understandings.

We could go a long way if we only followed you advice and ways.

Now please have your milk and cookies and get some rest young guns, so you can enlighten us some more in the morning.

bye bye

steve

that they permanently give us an example on politeness and good manners.

These well-bred guys are a real gem for their country, basically an advertisement as to the open-mindedness of the people living there.

I am proud to call them my friends. I can learn a lot from them.

"Everybody is useful, at least as a bad example"

German saying.
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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

It is a shame that these two individuals manage to drag down every rational comment that is said which has anything negative to say about the US. There are some people here (Paul for example) who give rational arguments, and intelligent debate. That at least is a sign that these two are not representative of every US citizen! Well, certainly not those over the age of 18. I mean no country is perfect! America could indeed be considered a great country, but then what makes it the greatest? Why should this be so important?

I don't know, it just seems that no matter what any of us non-US citizens say we will be slated. Even if we praise Bush for say his efforts in certain areas, we are called liars / hipocrites. I think the thing is that we understand that it is possible to disagree without hatred. We can make our own decisions with regards to whether or not something is right or not. At the end of the day, it is just our opinions, and we don't expect to necessarily change that of others. I just cannot see why there is so much of the 'all or nothing' attitude here.

Examples: I disagreed with the recent war, yet that doesn't make me anti-US or anti-British. I am proud to be British, and have no hatred whatsoever towards the US.

I disagree with Bush's plans to exploit gas in the Peruvian Amazon, yet think his efforts to bring some sort of peace in Israel are currently unrivalled on the worldwide political scene.

Get the idea? That's called freedom of speech, AND freedom of thought. OK, I know all the arguments about defending your country, getting revenge, or whatever, but then I still am able to make a PERSONAL decision. If nobody agrees with me, well that's how it is. I don't expect to be slated here for opposing the destruction of the rainforest when there are other possibilities out there. And yet I was. The apparent lack of concern for the environment here shocked me.

Solutions? We often seem to get asked for solutions. Maybe we don't have any. Maybe we have suggestions. But we are certainly allowed the right to have an opinion, and say when we think the wrong decision has been taken. At least that's what I thought. We don't have to agree with every decision taken by our government, and that's why when the elections come around we can do our best to change the people in power. It may not work, but then unfortunately these things are out of our hands. But an opinion people, we're still allowed that!

Finally, the thing that REALLY makes me laugh is that we look like the minority here. And yet, we know that worldwide, we are not. Most of the British public, Europe, and the world were against the war. Now that's alot of people. Can they ALL be wrong? Anyway, it's happened now, so there's bugger all any of us can do about it. Iraq needs to be rebuilt and I don't see why they should pay for it (oops, I have an opinion on that one, sorry, I'll take that back!! Of course the bastards should pay for rebuilding the country that the US and UK forces ruined! Silly me!).

Time to stop!

The fact that you're a minority here doesn't really mean much, other than the fact that this is a US dominated board, which probably shouldn't surprise anyone here.

The number of people that hold a belife is no way to determine said belife's validity. I hope you don't actually think that way--over the course of history, plenty of common belifes have proven false (just look at scientific history).
And I would argue that the rudeness has not been limited to the US side of the debate--one common theme of the anti-war crowd is that anyone who disagrees with them is blind, mis-informed, and/or stupid--I think H. Stoekl actually said as much.

It may be said politely, vs. the admittedly vitrolic attacks occasionally leveled by my fellow yanks--but it's still damn insulting and I'm surprised you guys can't figure out why we're hacked off. That, and Herman's posting of that damn website, which was offensive enough to make me see red--offensive both for the thinly vieled anti-US theme (and that *was* an anti-American website, not just an anti-war one), as well as it's sheer factual flaws--if you're gonna accuse the US of mass murder and covert acts of terror, have actual facts behind, not a theory that depends on it's flaws.

Now what will history say on the Iraq war? Gimmie 50 years. It's way too early to tell right now.

Paul
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Cornsnakes and kingsnakes and gophers oh my!

Paul, I don't know what you mean. Evolution??? What's that!

No, I can understand why there are so many 'hacked off' people in the US. I have grown up with the IRA bombing England, and I know what it's like to be against terrorism. I know it's a complex issue but I am glad we have never 'retaliated' as Pooshere may like to put it. I personally just don't think it works. I idon't think the Iraq war has done anything to help the 'war against terrorism,' and sincerely believe it has only worsened matters. But that of course is my belief. Like you say, time will tell.

I appreciate this is a US dominated forum, but just wish there were more people who at least had an open outlook. I guess patriotism is just at a different level over there, and I believe this at times can cloud personal judgement.

Anyway, like I said, what has happened has happened. I just hope further death can be avoided, and that grass roots problems can be addressed.

It's refreshing to see your posts Paul!

I'd just like to note that your response to a polite post is just as moronic as it is to a rude post.

Snake Feller

Well I'm sorry if you feel that way! What exactly have I said that offends you?

How bout it? LOL!

You don't care if we have an open outlook. You want us to conform to your way of thinking.

Not at all! It's just the only things I hear you say here are 100% pro bush, pro-everything US. Now OK, if that's how you feel, then I am very happy for you. You are one of the lucky few in the world that have no gripes with their government!

However, the feeling of superiority you seem to have is a little unsettling as is the way you refer to other countries as "lowly." You say you are objective and yet you think Hermann is a Nazi, as probably are all Germans. Us British are just a lowly form of the American, because we "lost" the civil war. Anyway, at least you're entertaining!

Really? Perhaps you could enlighten me as to where the posts are where I said that anyone was "lowly" and that Germans are Nazis, lol. The fact that you are now resorting to lying and making things up in a last ditch effort to make us look bad is a result of your running out of steam. Yopur arguments(for lack of a better word) are weak and tiresome. Oh, and laim!

Well, if I could be bothered I would go and find the comments, but unlike you, I have better things to do with my time. Enjoy the rest of your day posting your messages!

That's what I thought! LOL! Your credibility just soars with every post, lmao.

Come on Herpes, admit that you are not altogether against what terrorists have done and plan to do against the US. After all, we have "feelings of superiority" and we're the guys who have wiped out 40% of local populations and ruined the rain forests in South America. You keep intimating that terrorists are doing what they're doing for a reason and we need to understand why they are killing us. Do you have the guts to state that you sympathize with the terrorists (because you obviously do), or would that blow your cover? Please, come out in the open.

Snake Feller

Another day, another terrorist attack. And again, it may (for all of you out there who will bash this sentence, read I said MAY) be aimed at the US.

"Indonesian Vice President Hamzah Haz said the bombing might have been aimed at destroying American interests in the country."

The way I see it is, you will never eradicate the terrorists. They are just too deeply embedded and entwined in societies all over the world. There IS a lot of ill feeling out there, and personally (NB Pooshere etc. - just an opinion, I may be wrong!) I feel that this needs to be addressed. Why is there so much ill feeling? I don't have the answers here because I am not one of the terrorists, or for that matter, someone that has ill-feeling towards the US.

I just know that if there was a fire in my house, I'd look at what started it, rather than just putting it out. By doing so, I can avoid further fires. Rather simplistic I know, but you get my meaning.
Bomb in Jakarta

So it is your contention that since we can't eradicate terrorism that we shouldn't even try to fight it? LOL. Please, keep these posts coming. They're really making you look good.......NOT! LOL!

To combat terrorism doesn't have to involve further violence. It would do you some good to research the history of the British and the IRA, and the Spanish and the Basque's for example.

One has nothing to do with the other. Let's not start comparing apples to oranges. Nice try though. Like I said, keep those meaningless posts coming, braincell.

Enough about Britain and the IRA. This is about Bush and terrorists. UBL and Saddam have both been decimated. We haven't been attacked since 9/11 in case you haven't noticed. The word for Bush is EFFECTIVE. Don't project your (Britain's) sorry situation with the IRA on us. Keep rooting for the US to fail creepo!

Snake Feller

It could very well have been aimed at US interests. I don't know. It's a horrible thing, regardless of who it was aimed at.

I hope you're wrong when you say it's impossible to ever stop this sort of thing. I do know (as Bush has repeatedly said) this is NOT something that can be fixed in a day, a week, a month, or even a year. It's a VERY long-term struggle that may well take an entire generation to overcome.

Unfortunately, we in the western world, live in an age of "instant everything." Microwaves, running hot water, dishwashers and next-day mail. We're deluged with TV shows where every week's problems are completely resolved in 30 or 60 minutes. We're no longer culturally prepared to deal with a long term struggle.

I just know that if there was a fire in my house, I'd look at what started it, rather than just putting it out. By doing so, I can avoid further fires. Rather simplistic I know, but you get my meaning.

Ummmm...well, in this case, the guy who started that fire died in it. So now what do you do? You look for the guy who sent him in! What the heck do you think we're trying to do? We decimated (but unfortunately have not yet decapitated) Al Qaeda. We took out two entire government regimes. (Afganistan and Iraq) We're working hard to find a way to settle things between Isreal and Palestine. And we're not through trying to get to the foundation of the issue. .....Yeah....I get your meaning. Do you?

Judy

Yeah, I do get my meaning. And I think you misunderstood my analogy about the fire. Understanding why there are SO many people who are prepared to be terrorists against the US, that is what I see as the long term solution.

Do you honestly think you will ever eradicate every terrorist? That is my point.

You differ in opinion. And like I said, that is fine with me. And, I sincerely hope that whatever is done, that it succeeds. I see nobody else here conceding they MAY also be wrong. That would by default mean they believe they can only be right. Or maybe they've not commented on it yet, I don't know.

Anyway, let's try and keep our minds open!

I think we do understand why some people are so deadset against the US. What should we do? Change who we are? Should we turn our backs on Isreal, clothe ourselves in rags and throw away all our cars and nice houses? (Now THERE would be an environmental nightmare! Where would we put them all??? *LOL*) Do you think we have a better chance of stamping out American pride than stamping out those relatively few people who would kill us for it?

Do you honestly think you will ever eradicate every terrorist? That is my point.

Completely and utterly so that no act of terrorism ever happens in the world again? No. There will always be individuals with the desire to hurt others and the will to do so. But by cutting off their sources of money and support, we can certainly stop the worst of them, and hopefully prevent a worldwide tragedy whose dimensions we have yet to imagine or comprehend.

And yeah...I believe I'm right in my opinion. Do I believe Bush is 100% right in all his actions? No. He's made mistakes and will continue to do so. He's human, after all. But I do believe, without any wavering, that he is taking the right path.

Well I need to get going now but I value your opinions and it's good to see one other person that is capable of a more than one sentence (and intelligent) post. We obviously agree on some things, but will have to agree to differ on others.

I'll happily agree to disagree with ya.

Hope your day is a good one.
Judy
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1.0 red cape gopher (Caesar)
0.1 gerbil (Whiskers)

Same to you. And let this thread be an example to others that a 'normal' discussion is possible here!

Take care

At least you are consistent. Your closed mind allows us to know that, in each and every situation, you are against the US. Don't misunderstand yourself. I think you need to come in out of the jungle Hedge Hog Boy.

Snake Feller

You mean keep our minds open to your way of thinking because our way of thinking is wrong. Isn't that what you mean? Why does our steadfast belief in our country bother you so much? If you answer no other question that we ask, then at least answer this. Why does it bother you that we are insulted by the ludicrous articles posted earlier that trash the U.S. with accusations of conspiracy theories and plots to destroy thousands of people on our own soil and that we are diligently defending our country's honor? Why on earth would that seem wrong to you. I have an open mind, but I know trash (insults) when I see it. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it isn't a friggin' Ostrich!

"Another day, another terrorist attack." I hope your happy! You are such an idiot, thinking that somehow this gives you some credibility. Your sentence implies that for every day, there is another terrorist attack. You can only hope!

"And again, it may (for all of you out there who will bash this sentence, read I said MAY) be aimed at the US." It may be aimed at YOU. It may be aimed at Iraq. Who knows, it may be aimed at Santa Claus. But you are in such a hurry to bash the US that you can't even imagine that the US isn't the culprit.

"The way I see it is, you will never eradicate the terrorists." Well then, maybe we should just leave them alone then. You can only hope! Whether you are right or wrong, 9/11 gave the US no choice but to wipe them out, and, at this point I'd say that most terrorists are probably considering a career change. But you go ahead and keep wishing that we'll leave them terrorists alone!

"There IS a lot of ill feeling out there, and personally (NB Pooshere etc. - just an opinion, I may be wrong!) I feel that this needs to be addressed. Why is there so much ill feeling? I don't have the answers here because I am not one of the terrorists, or for that matter, someone that has ill-feeling towards the US." It surprises me that a guy like you who loves to point out that there must be a reason why terrorists have "much ill feeling" toward the US, can't come up with any legitimate and justifiable reasons for why terrorists feel that way. Come on coward, say what you really think. Tell us why we should be terrorized.

"I just know that if there was a fire in my house, I'd look at what started it, rather than just putting it out. By doing so, I can avoid further fires." The "fire" in our house was 9/11. We put the fire out and now we're in the process of eliminating "what started it" (and doing rather well mind you). Here you go again criticizing without any solution of your own. You are such a simpleton!

Snake Feller

We have serial killers in the US (just like England) and we are constantly making an effort to eliminate them. Their victims did nothing to deserve death, and there is no need to understand why the serial killer kills, until either he is dead on behind bars. Any way you slice it: HE IS A SICK BASTARD!. Terrorists, in relation to the US, are no different than the serial killer is to his victims. You yourself can't seem to provide a reason why the terrorists target the US. We don't kill people in other countries, unless it'd self-defense. Sure, we buy lots of oil overseas, but all that does is help their economies. WHY DO YOU FIND IT SOOOO IMPORTANT FOR US TO UNDERSTAND THESE KILLERS?

Snake Feller

I hope its not aimed at santa claus because he lives here in Finland just a few miles away.

steve

Poor soul. Has no one told you that Santa Clause is just a myth. Uh oh, I got a call coming in. My caller ID says it's the Easter Bunny. Gotta' git! Toodles.

He's real and you know it

steve

Arnold Swartzenegger for governer of California, Im interested on your oppinions on this, after all he is a European.

steve

Really? I thought he was an American citizen. For a long time. Has he secretly been living in Europe behind our backs? That HEATHEN! Wasn't it the U.S. that brought him fame and fortune? I don't follow his political views, therefore I have no opinion other than I like him. Come on now Steve, this is reaching. Repent! Before it's too late. You can still be saved! AHLL BIH BOCK.

Im reaching for nothing exept oppinions, he is an American citezen on paper but he is and always will be a European, I just wondered if this bothered anyone in the states.

steve

I totally disagree! He chose to be an American, and that's what he is. And you ARE reaching. But alright. I'll entertain this. If he is and always will be European, then why hasn't he returned there? Why does he live here and stake his claim here? Why did he become a citizen here? I've got news for ya' pal. Having an accent doesn't make you European. Loving your homeland (Europe) enough to stay there does. Perhaps you should write to Arnold and ask him why he chose to make this his home and then we'll chat some more.

Give up? Okay, I'll answer for ya'. He stayed here because we offered him something that Europe couldn't. That being fame, fortune and above all...happiness. He stayed here because he loves the U.S.A! I DON'T BLAME HIM!

I just wondered what you guys thought, thats all, but there you go again.

What am I reaching for, why do you keep saying this

steve

Wouldn't you like to take a stab at some of my questions above?

OK, lets be grown up the both of us, give me one question to start with, Im not much into politics so take it easy on that stance.

steve

Just answer the questions in my friggin' post.

Oh well I guess you cant be grown up, and this is the aggressive speaking I was talking about

steve

I don't believe I was being aggressive. You however are being annoying. You brougtht up this topic. I gave you questions to answer. Now you are dancing around those questions. If you don't feel as though you are qualified to answer them, just say so. Otherwise, stop with the sorry excuses or drop it all together. Judging from your last few posts, it has become obvious that you are just looking for attention. If you don't answer the questions, I will entertain this particular thread no longer. By the way, wasn't it you who said that you would never post here again if Judy found one insult. She did. Why are you still here?

If anyone is annoying its you buddy

No brain answers, to anything anyone has asked.

steve

Agressive = direct and honest, not your style. You are the evasive weasel who can't stand Americans, but for some vain reason you don't have the guts to admit it. We are superior to you! Ha Ha! We are the greatest! Ha Ha!

Snake Feller

PS, Did it ever occur to you that when Bush proudly claims that we are the greatest country, he takes a little satisfaction in knowing that it annoys the bitter and envious little foreigners, like you, who would resent us, regardless of what he says?

Oh boy, so aggresive means honest and direct, ok I know how you think now. so what is bigheadedness, superiority, hatefullness, just some of the things that scream from your mouth, do they mean love.

You are really starting to sound like the very things that you say you are aginst.

No one here has said they hate Americans or America, we havent said that at all, BUT you guys deffinatley hate Europeans and Europe and it seems you hate, well most of the countries on earth by the way you sound.

Yes you are better than everyone, ok. you dont need anyone else right. it seems to me that if you were soo secure in your country and abilities then you would have a little pride in yourself too, and you wouldnt be soo deffensive all the time, and soo angry.

You do make me chuckle though

steve

"No one here has said they hate Americans or America, we havent said that at all" That's only because you don't have the guts! Come on loser, spit it out.

"BUT you guys deffinatley hate Europeans and Europe and it seems you hate, well most of the countries on earth by the way you sound." Not true, we just don't like Europeans who act and feel like you do toward Americans. No need to make a big production out of it.

"Yes you are better than everyone, ok. you dont need anyone else right. it seems to me that if you were soo secure in your country and abilities then you would have a little pride in yourself too, and you wouldnt be soo deffensive all the time, and soo angry." Who said I didn't have pride in myself? As for "being defensive", it's been clarified already in these threads that the articles posted by your lame-brain European cohorts here warrented a response. We responded, that's all. keep chuckling while you take your beating!

Snake Feller

PA, Maybe next time you and your buddies won't bring a knife to a gun-fight. Or better yet, you'll learnn to shut your big mouth.

Well, you hate Europeans if they say something different
to you or think differently than you (HMM is that racism or just prejudis) you keep calling names and acting agressive that is(deffensiveness) you keep implying things that we are not saying in an effort to rationalise the things we are saying (very deffensive again. Every tine we say we dont hate the US and Americans you tell us we are lying so you have something else to shout back about.

the list goes on and on, you guys are quite childish is all your responses, I bet you get into alot of fights where you live dont you, because you cant understand that people think and act differently. I tell you if you are an American then you should deffinately be able to understand other cultures because America is made up of many different cultures, you should at least an example of a true American. Do you treat everyone who is foreign this way, have you even visited another country, ever.

I dont see much pride in you for your country because of the way you talk, and no pride in yourself either. you seem to think that you must be a shinning example of aggression and hostility so that we will all be scared of you and obey.

You'll give yourself hypertension if you keep this up.

steve

LMAO!!! How can you say, and I quote, "I don't see much pride in you for your country...", when you don't know what pride is. Let's recap, shall we? On August 1st you wrote "I am beyond defending any country, even the one that I am from". On Aug. 4th you wrote "I'm not as proud as you are about my government and I have no reason to defend them". You clearly have no loyalty and zero pride or respect for anything or anyone and you are jealous of those who do, which is clearly apparent upon reading your posts on August 3rd when you wrote "the thing that annoys me is the defensiveness of your people", and my personal favorite, your August 4th post where you stated "this damn "proudness" has gone too far". I think that about sums you up. Oooh, that's gonna' leave a mark. Have a nice day.

Your very clever arn't you, quoting and everything.

Pride impairs your thuoghts and words, you,ve been brainwashed into beleiving that you are superior to everyone else. Just that statement says that you are not superior, if you have to keep reminding everyone of it, then it must be false hey.

Ide really like to know what you are proud of since you keep telling me this, give me an example.

steve

If you want the last word that bad, you got it. But at least answer one of the questions I posed above regarding Arnold for governor. After all, you brought it up and you asked for it. See my previous post for those questions. You know where it is. The longer you buy time by defaming our posts and making "assumptions" as to what we are thinking and what terrible people we are without actually addressing ANY of the issues that you yourself initiated, the more you will make yourself look bad. Here's your chance to show us that you really have something to offer other than your opinions of Snakefeller and myself. Toodles.

You guys make the assumptions, just like always you try and turn it all around just like I said before, because you have nothing better to do or say.

steve

You sound defeated and bitter. You been chewed up and spit out on this forum. You have been held accountable for your anti-American comments. You've tried to avoid being known as the guy who hates Americans, despite your obvious dislike of Americans. You have obviously wasted your time in American, and it's nice to know that you are now some other country's burden. England made you sick, the US made you sick, gee I wonder how Finland is going to fall short of your lofty expectations. You aren;t a very likeable guy. Face it.

Snake Feller

Same replies as usual, you would like people to hate Americans wouldnt you, so you would have an excuse for fighting.

Sounds familiar to me

There you go again with your usual drivel.

Snake Feller

I'm easily a SUPERIOR speller than you are. Should I be proud of that? Unlike you, I live in a country that I am PROUD of. Should I feel SUPERIOR to you? What's it to you loser? You are aimlessly looking for an opening to criticize Americans. We know you hate us, and know that you don't want to be labeled as such. But you have received exctly the recognition that you deserve here. Go lick your wounds schoolboy!

Snake Feller

same words again

nothing new from you

Dittos

Snake Feller

There you go again with your childlike words

"Well, you hate Europeans if they say something different
to you or think differently than you (HMM is that racism or just prejudis)"

Now the little sissy is playing the race card. Grow up little boy. I judge people on an individual basis. For instance, Tony Blair is a European that I have much respect for. You, on the other hand, have had nothing nice to say about Americans, I have no respect for. There's no racism or prejudice involved. I simply judge you based on the things you've said.

Don't get carried away thinking that, just because you've been to a few foreign countries, you have a SUPERIOR knowledge of the world. You obviously failed at whatever you came to the US for. Your bitterness gives you away, and no one here is impressed with your lop-sided comments about how bad you think this country is.

Pride is a topic that you should avoid, given your admission that you have none when it comes to your country. You resent Americans BECAUSE we have ride. You couldn't be any more clueless when you suggest that I have none. I am a happy, confident, and proud American - ha ha jackass. You sound like a resentful child with no self-esteem. Poor little you!

Snake Feller

What's up Snakefeller? I wouldn't waist another minute on this creep. I've tried time and time again to get him to address the issue that he himself brought forth, yet he keeps avoiding the issue by submitting his empty accusatory posts. He obviously has nothing to say. Therefore, perhaps you and I could discuss our feelings regarding Arnold Schwartzeneger. Do you think he does his own stunts in "The Terminator"?

What's up Poo? I agree, little stevie is an evasive little weasel, and it's obvious that he's run out of steam. We've given him the proper medication and put him to rest.

To answer your question, yes I think Arnold does all of his stunts, he's a modern day John Wayne. Actually, I don't know, but I'm sure that little Stevie would disagree with whatever the truth was. He has a knack for being wrong.

Snake feller

What about Arnold's forehead. Do you think it exceeds the four-inch minimum limit required to be a governor?

Oh dear, you guys are such a joke, I love it.

jerry springer's waiting for you

Man you sound like a broken record, full of he man talk

You need to grow up a little

"OK, lets be grown up the both of us, give me one question to start with, Im not much into politics so take it easy on that stance."

You continue to shamelessly embarass yourself. I love it! The nit wit (that would be you) who "isn't much into politics" is the same clown who is interested in knowing what we Americans think about Arnold Scwarzenegger running in California (politics). The fact is that you ARE into politics, you just don't know what the hell you are talking about. Grow up!

Snake Feller

Why don't you explain why you want to know what we think? Let's see, we have a bitter, dejected, crybaby, who has no apparent country to call home, looking for some angle to bash California and the US. Gee, I wonder what the answer to my question might be. Keep on reaching jackass!

Snake Feller

Civilized, rational human beings don't bother anyone here. Arnold rocks! How's that envious one? Do you think you will ever find a country that likes you?

Snake Feller

Most of us in the US are of European decent dumb dumb. There wouldn't be much of a US if it weren't for Europe. Are you jealous that Arnold is a US citizen and you are not? We're happy to have him and we're glad you are gone.

Snake Feller

PS, California, in it's weakest moment is better off than whatever puny country you happen to be festering in at any given moment. How's your cardboard box holding up hobo boy?

A question for the Pansy: you have a big problem your own countrie's government (England). You have a huge problem with the US government. Do you also have a problem with Finland's government? I'm just curious to know what the perpetual critic with no solutions has to say.

Snake Feller

I just love the way you guys get soo worked up, it really is amusing, relax if its possible for you.

Answer one question, if it is possible for you.

He Can't. He lacks the guts and the intelligence.

Snake Feller

Don't worry about us candya$$. Annoying you is very relaxing.

Snake Feller

"Can they all be wrong?" The answer is YES: millions of people can be just as wrong as one. The rest of the world is still in the dark ages as long as it renains complacent with terrorists. We were attacked, not the rest of the world, and if the rest of the world isn't with us on this, at least get the hell out of our way in our efforts to prevent future attacks. That's all bonehead, can't you get it?

"Solutions? We often seem to get asked for solutions. Maybe we don't have any. Maybe we have suggestions." Forget about "maybe", you haven't offered anything that resembles a solution. Suggestions would be a joke. When people have died, decisive action is necessary. Your ivory tower intellectual posturing without any regard for the practical has put you at odds with the majority of Americans.

"It is a shame that these two individuals manage to drag down every rational comment that is said which has anything negative to say about the US. There are some people here (Paul for example) who give rational arguments, and intelligent debate. That at least is a sign that these two are not representative of every US citizen!" You are wrong! We do represent how the majority of US citizens feel about guys like you. I don't hide my fellings for the sake of being mannerly. You've pissed me off and you've given me no reason to be polite. But the main point is that whether or not I say it rudely, or Paul says it politely, the fact remains that YOU ARE WRONG!

"Even if we praise Bush for say his efforts in certain areas, we are called liars / hipocrites." Coward! You are the creep who has done nothing but bash Bush, NOT PRAISE HIM! Sprinkling in a little endorsement about his efforts in Israel isn't a pimple on the a$$ of the magnitude of the war on terrorism. Nice try creep!

"I am proud to be British, and have no hatred whatsoever towards the US. Get the idea? That's called freedom of speech, AND freedom of thought." Good for you! No one here has denied you of your freedom of speech, so please stop crying about it!

You are the guy who poued salt in the wounds of 9/11 for Americans here. You paid for posting that bizarre and insensitive article. Take your medicine and go away!

Snake Feller

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, listen, try to have a discussion. Try to lose the aggression. I have not continuously bashed Bush! I HAVE continuously reiterated that I am far from being anti-US, or anti-Bush. Basically, anyone that has the slightest incline that maybe the war was unjustified is bashed here! But you see, we don't go away. We are happy with an outlook that allows us make our own judgement when things are right or wrong. I for one have continuously stated that if you disagree with me, then that's your choice. I have no problem with that. I may be proven wrong in years to come, as no further acts of terrorism take place in the US. I hope I am proven wrong.

But the likes of you, Poosphere et al cannot even bring yourself to agree that MAYBE, just maybe you MAY be wrong. And MAYBE, your government MAY have made a wrong decision in its' rapid retaliation. You are just so stubborn that all you believe is correct, and anybody that disagrees with you is wrong.

Good luck to you!

But the likes of you, Poosphere et al cannot even bring yourself to agree that MAYBE, just maybe you MAY be wrong. And MAYBE, your government MAY have made a wrong decision in its' rapid retaliation. You are just so stubborn that all you believe is correct, and anybody that disagrees with you is wrong.

*LOL* What is so wrong with being confident in your beliefs? I believe a great many things with as high a degree of confidence...or even higher. And if you disagree with me...then yes...I firmly believe (read: KNOW) you are simply wrong. You're not a bad person for being wrong. You're just not correct on that point. Is that so offensive?

No no, the difference between myself and these people, is that I have the capability to understand that maybe I am wrong. Maybe you will kill every terrorist on earth. I have my beliefs, and I stand by them, but I am willing to discuss things in an adult, and open minded manner.

To not even concede that there is the slightest miniscule possibility that one may be wrong, is ridiculous. To again refer back to Paul's post, let's take an example from science. The people that disagreed with Darwin, but then realised he might just have a point were the ones that helped further the science of evolution.

To not even concede that there is the slightest miniscule possibility that one may be wrong, is ridiculous. To again refer back to Paul's post, let's take an example from science. The people that disagreed with Darwin, but then realised he might just have a point were the ones that helped further the science of evolution.

LMAO! Oh, let's just start a whole new thread for this one, shall we??? And I daresay I would be in the vast MINORITY on this board with my opinion...but still just as sure that I am right. More so than even with my political views.

I will say this. My faith in politics rests on human actions. So yes...it can be flawed. But I don't believe "open-mindedness" means never believing you are right. It means I will gladly and respectfully listen to other's views and weigh their words carefully.

To never be sure you're right about anything? I couldn't live such an insecure life.

Oh, that doesn't mean one is living an insecure life. It just means that you can be open to suggestions and maybe incorporate them into your own way of thinking.

I am 100% certain that evolution took place though (well, I shouldn't just talk in the past tense here!)

Ahah! Incorporate them into our own way of thinking? That's what I thought. As I've said before, your animosity toward us is a result of your lack of success in making us think the way you do.

Actually, if you read my words (and the previous posts) carefully, I refer to my OWN ability to take on the ideas of others and incorporate them into my way of thinking!

Our retaliation was anything but rapid!

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.......

It is a shame that these two individuals manage to drag down every rational comment that is said which has anything negative to say about the US.

From all that I've read so far, I've seen very little rational behind all the negativity toward the US. Someone spends a few years here, in a single city, in what is probably the more downtrodden areas of that city...and assumes the entire country is like that. Not very rational. People love to criticize the US because it is the "in" thing to do. And they will never have a lack of ammunition, because there simply isn't ANY perfect country, government, or person. I'm sure if we wanted to expend the energy, we could find some equally heinous faults of England, Ireland, Germany, France...or whatever...and beat you over the head with them too.

There are some people here (Paul for example) who give rational arguments, and intelligent debate. That at least is a sign that these two are not representative of every US citizen!

They're ALL representative of our country. We have all types here. Those who argue with insults, and those who argue with gentle words. Those who support the reasons for the war, and those who do not. It's astonishing to me that anyone would assume an entire country is "like" the few people they argue with on a website. If I thought that way, I'd think all Englishmen were (insert male body part of choice here.) But I know that's not at all true.

America could indeed be considered a great country, but then what makes it the greatest? Why should this be so important?

Have you never had a favorite sports team? Football or hockey or rugby or something? A team that you loved to cheer for and support. And even when they didn't win their championship, even if they don't come close...they're still the "Greatest" because they've got more heart, more style, more something....
Of course we like to think of our own country as the greatest. We love it.

At the end of the day, it is just our opinions, and we don't expect to necessarily change that of others. I just cannot see why there is so much of the 'all or nothing' attitude here.

I don't think it's the expressing of opinions that has everyone riled. I think it's the brusque, insensitive manner in which they were expressed. I'd enjoy a chance to sit down and discuss the merits of the war and our actions against terrorism. But if you start by telling me we're all a bunch of megalomaniacs who bomb our own people in horrific ways just to have an excuse to attack other countries and steal their oil.....you're not likely to get a very sweetly worded response.

Get the idea? That's called freedom of speech, AND freedom of thought.

Yes. Freedom of speech. Speak on. But remember, everyone on this board has the same freedom, too. Don't be so surprised and offended when they use it.

Solutions? We often seem to get asked for solutions.

I don't think you need to be asked for solutions in order to offer them...if your arguments are valid. Opinions were certainly offered that were never asked for.

But an opinion people, we're still allowed that!

Of course you're allowed that! But anyone else is too. And in their opinion, your opinions are wrong. Are they "allowed" to think that? To say it?

Can they ALL be wrong?

To think that the majority opinion must, by definition, be right, is a very dangerous way to think. Actually...it's not THINKING at all. It's simply going along with the flow of the river as it follows the easiest course available to it.

What if we had taken Hitler out before he began ransacking Europe and murdering hundreds of thousands of people??? Would that have been a good thing? It's hard to imagine anyone thinking otherwise. BUT...if we had...would anyone then recognize it for the good thing it was? We'd be nothing but the "bully" who stomped on a German dictator because we didn't like him. He surely wouldn't have been so bad as to deserve that sort of treatment! And...we'd never know otherwise, would we? We'd just have to TRUST in the leadership of our country that they knew what they were doing.

Or should we have waited until Saddam finally had the weapons he craved and the opportunity to use them? Waited for that nuke to fall on some city...waited for some engineered disease to ravage an entire continent?

I'm glad we didn't wait.
Judy
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1.0 red cape gopher (Caesar)
0.1 gerbil (Whiskers)

Oh believe me, I'm not offended by the likes of Pooshere etc. They make me laugh. I have my views, and I understand that others will have different ones. That, you see, is the difference!

"Solutions? We often seem to get asked for solutions"

- I have continuously stated that I believe the grass roots problems need to be addressed. Feel free to look at my previous posts, and a recent one to Paul2. That is my suggestion. It may not work, but I don't see the violet retaliation making this any better, on the contrary.

"They're ALL representative of our country"

- Please, reread my post. "That at least is a sign that these two are not representative of every US citizen" This would imply that I understand that there is a diversity of views in the US but not all of them are identical to the likes of Scalawag and Poosphere.

"Of course we like to think of our own country as the greatest. We love it."

- Like I said, I applaud the level of patriotism. However, I do think that this does cloud judgement with certain people. It is a frequent joke outside of the US that Americans view their country as the world, and that anything outside of it might as well be from a different planet. I'll never forget being asked by an American what language we speak in England. Anyway, I do think that patriotism is a good thing , and I wish there was more of it here, I really do. Please, don't misunderstand me on this one.

"so much of the 'all or nothing' attitude here"

This was in reference to the dozens of posts that refer to Germany, France etc as enemies, simply because they didn't go to war. You may not have seen them. Bush's statement "You're either with us or against us" is ridiculous in my opinion. That is my opinion. Nothing more. If someone doesn't agree with me I personally don't consider him/her and enemy.

"Can they ALL be wrong?"

I realise now that I should have worded this differently. But again, to turn this on it's head, maybe the decision to go to war was the wrong one? Anyway, like I said, too late now!

Anyway, please read my posts carefully. I feel like I'm treading on ice and at least I admit they my views may be wrong. That again, is the difference.

Enjoy your day.

I have continuously stated that I believe the grass roots problems need to be addressed. Feel free to look at my previous posts, and a recent one to Paul2. That is my suggestion. It may not work, but I don't see the violet retaliation making this any better, on the contrary.

I think I responded to that one, so I won't do so again here. But so far, all I really see offered as a "solution" is "maybe violence isn't the right way to go..." My question then would be "What is???"

This was in reference to the dozens of posts that refer to Germany, France etc as enemies, simply because they didn't go to war.

Yes, I may have missed some of these discussions, being so new to the board. But I'll say that I don't think it was them disagreeing with us that caused the problems. It was the way the French and German governments went about trying very hard to undermine any US attempt to act in any way. We probably could have respected their desire to stay out of the war...but they in no way respected OUR wishes to protect our own country.

Anyway, please read my posts carefully. I feel like I'm treading on ice and at least I admit they my views may be wrong. That again, is the difference.

I read carefully. And I don't dislike you for your opinions. Not in the least. You actually seem the "nicest" of those here who are taking place in this debate. But maybe you feel like you're treading on thin ice because you're not SURE your opinions are right. Yes...that's a difference. The ground is much more secure when you KNOW you're right.

Judy

That is the difference between you and I. You believe you are 100% correct, I believe I am 99% correct. I am open minded enough to listen to other sides of the coin.

Maybe Germany and France disagreed with the (huge) imminent loss of civilian life in Iraq? Maybe there are no WMD. And I'm sorry, but that was meant to be the point! So maybe that is why they opposed the war so much. If you think that war was in self defence I am a little at a loss as to why there aren't any more wars taking place at the moment.

That is the difference between you and I. You believe you are 100% correct, I believe I am 99% correct. I am open minded enough to listen to other sides of the coin.

Ahhh...but I'm perfectly willing to listen. It's what I've been spending all morning doing, isn't it? I simply haven't heard a single thing that makes me think otherwise, and I don't believe you (or anyone else) can find something to make me think otherwise.

Maybe Germany and France disagreed with the (huge) imminent loss of civilian life in Iraq?

Excuse me??? What HUGE loss of life? This war was fought with the fewest deaths of any war in history. America went out of its way (to the point of endangering its own soldiers) to protect civillian life. Yes, there were innocent deaths. Their tragedy can never be fully understood by those of us sitting comfortably in America (Or England). Their lives are no less important than the 3000 people who died on Sept 11th. But I don't see how it could possibly have been otherwise, without far more dire consequences for all.

Maybe there are no WMD.

Maybe not. Maybe the ones he'd already used were the only ones he ever had. But it is MUCH more likely that the years and then months of dragging our feet about dealing with it allowed him to dispose of and hide them in a way that we'll never know. I still don't think it was wrong to take such a man out. If he somehow didn't actually have anything...he certainly would have eventually.

If you think that war was in self defence I am a little at a loss as to why there aren't any more wars taking place at the moment.

It's a matter of ability. As great as our country is and our military, we are FINITE. We're spread thin. I'm a military wife. I understand that more than most, I think. But far more than that, it's because we're NOT the warmongers that everyone else makes us out to be. Bush is trying very hard to solve these issues WITHOUT having to go to war and crush every country that supports terrorism.

All fair points, and again, nice to see some decent discussion. One last thing though, I am sure you'll agree that 3,000 people is no insignificant loss of life? And there were more killed than that in Iraq! True, loss of life was much lower than most wars but then things are a little different now aren't they? Anyway, I do need to get going!

Funny, you keep forgetting to mention how many lives will be saved (civilian and other) in the future due to the absence of a brutal dictator and his sons.

"True, loss of life was much lower than most wars but then things are a little different now aren't they? " I have to wonder whether or not you think "things are a little different" for the better or worse. Does modern technology which enables surgical strikes that result in less casualties dissapoint you? Or would you prefer maximum death and destruction to support your agenda against the US?

Snake Feller

"That is the difference between you and I. You believe you are 100% correct, I believe I am 99% correct. I am open minded enough to listen to other sides of the coin." This just in Bubble-Head: YOU ARE NOT! Your position hasn't changed one bit since this thread started.You are still just as wrong when you started. We have been right all along, Bush's progress proves it.

"Maybe Germany and France disagreed with the (huge) imminent loss of civilian life in Iraq? Maybe there are no WMD. And I'm sorry, but that was meant to be the point! So maybe that is why they opposed the war so much. If you think that war was in self defence I am a little at a loss as to why there aren't any more wars taking place at the momemt"

Wrong again! And you say you were 99% sure of yourself! There were NOT "HUGE" civilian casualties! Look it up jackass! it's time to adjust your predictions to being 1% (if that) sure of yourself.

Snake Feller

"Bush's statement "You're either with us or against us" is ridiculous in my opinion."

Bush was talking about going after terrorists and eliminating them. The fact that lots of people died has everything to do with his absolute stance on the matter. He was (and is) right and you were (and are) wrong. There's no in between on the subject. Terrorists don't negotiate. You are a contemptible little louse if you want to speak out against a guy (and country) who wants to kill the bad guys.

Snake Feller

Wow! Bravo! That's the best post I've seen here. That was long overdue and music to my ears. Thank you!

Why thank you! I'm blushin.....

All of your posts are fantastic. If you weren't married, I'd hop on a bus right now. Please do convey to your significant other that he has the die-hard support of some of us snake people.

Please note that the phrase "hop on a bus" was used as a euphemism for "travel".

*LOL* Are you sure? I pictured you bunny-hopping along the top of a bus.

I'll be sure to pass on your support to my hubby. (Although he doesn't like snakes much at all! ) I'm more proud of him and his career than I know how to express!

Judy
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1.0 red cape gopher (Caesar)
0.1 gerbil (Whiskers)

While the bus is moving? Maybe when I was in my teens or even twenties. Heck if I could do that now I'd be a stunt double for Clint Eastwood, lol. Every good man should have a companion like you.

Why thank you. I'm blushing.... ;0

These foreigners refuse to take responsibilty for the messages they've posted on this forum. They act as if the threw some objective articles onto the forum merely as "food for thought", as though some casual conversation was expected to follow. When pressed about the content of these articles, not a one of them had the courage to stand behind anything specific that was stated in the article. We are dealing with gelatinous anti-Americans who don't know how to act when they are criticized themselves. Since 9/11, the attitude of we Americans has changed toward guys like this, and they can no longer assume that we will ignore THEIR criticisms. Keep up the good work in pounding the hell out of these losers!

Snake Feller

Don't sugar-coat it, just say what you mean, lol!
I agree though. Judy is a WMD, LOL. I'd like to see her hubby throw a few cents in, but he's busy looking after the GREATEST country on the planet. Oops, there goes that huge ego again, lol.

Never been called a WMD before. *LOL* Gonna have to tell hubby about that one. Do I need to be registered with some organization at the pentagon???

Seriously though, it's not my intent to "pound the hell" out of anyone. Just to gently point out a few errors in logic, that's all.

Judy

there you go again with the threats, thats all I hear from you guys, tough guy attitude, cant talk properly without it can you

steve

Are the provocative posts the only ones you respond to? I haven't taken a "tough guy" attitude at all, at least I don't think so. But since you haven't addressed any of the points that I've raised so far, it is hard to have a civil dialogue of any sort. That is what you're looking for, isn't it? Civil dialogue?

I apologize in advance if you've simply not gotten to my posts yet. It's just interesting to note the only ones you've responded to so far.

I'm open if you want to discuss the issues...not the bashing.

Judy
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1.0 red cape gopher (Caesar)
0.1 gerbil (Whiskers)

I was refering to the other 3 not you, I havent really read many of your posts, and Im not someone who is heavily into politics and I dont even want to pretend I do so yes I seem to have gotten caught up in trying to wonder why the other 3 seem to want to talk with such agression all the time.

We can all dissagree with each other, but do you see any of us going off the deep end when you refer to our countries in negative ways.

steve

What other three would you be referring to? And what's this talk of agression? I don't see any agression...SO THERE!

*LOL* You're a brat!

I gotta' be me.

Just your tone, sarcastic, name calling, ect ect

Who, me?

*LOL* I think you've ALL gone off the deep end.

I didn't read the entire history of the discussions, but from what I did read, I think it started off because someone (I don't know who and am not pointing fingers) began posting messages or links about off-the-wall conspiracy theories regarding Sept 11th and the current wars.

I by no means think Americans are the only ones who've ever suffered from heinous acts of terrorism...but surely you can understand why we'd be so sensitive to such apparent attacks of our integrity as a people after such a painful event. And if you can't...then maybe you can't really understand anyone's pain.

Yes, there's some American hotheads who just love a good ol' shouting match. But yelling back the same insults doesn't exactly solve anything, it just keeps the ball rolling...don't ya think?

But thats my point, we are not yelling back

its you guys/gals that do all the yelling

steve

ps. yes poosphere you are one of the ones I was reffering to

Maybe you're not using capital letters and lots of !!!'s...but I've definitely seen a lot of insults hurled from both sides. I could go and C&P a bunch of examples if you wanted me to...but I have the feeling that you'd try and explain that somehow what you (or one of the other instigators) said wasn't insulting or antagonizing in any way. You're all just innocent victims of American bullying.

You guys all sound like my kids. *LOL*

"She touched me!"
"Well, he touched me first!"
"I did not! I only put my finger on your shirt!"
"Well that's touching!"
"Is not!!"
"IS TOO!!!"
.......etc etc etc ad nauseum

Please show me an insult, and I will never post here again

steve

The thread you began called "I posted this below but it belongs up here too" is, at the very least, antagonistic. It was meant (or SOUNDED like it was meant) for nothing more than to start an argument. Maybe its a bit of a culture gap between our two countries, I don't know. But you said yourself that you're not really into politics at all, and yet you start a whole new topic bashing our governmental policies with far too little information behind it.

This is a direct quote from another post: "By the sound of most of your posts I see now where you get all your little cute bashfull terms, yes we all know that you love the 3 stooges, you really sound like them "

But poo started that one so I forgive ya.

I don't want you to not ever post again. There are others who were far more blatantly insulting than you.

Maybe everyone is afraid to let someone have the last word and just drop it.

Posted by: steve.AC at Mon Aug 4 17:11:33 2003

steve

Guess that's it, lol. Take care Steve. Parting is such sweet sorrow.

LMAO! You're killing me!

Even "American Hotheads" are capable of making valid points. The manner in which something is said doesn't change it's validity. Poor little Stevie jumped into a thread involving arguments made by a couple of "American hotheads" for no apparent reason other than to say how superior Americans thought they were. Little Stevie ended up getting his little feelings hurt and did nothing but attack the "American hotheads", not their arguements. Little Stevie, you see, can't seem to answer any questions. He simply doesn't like Americans, hotheads or not.

Snake Feller

Your wit, woodenhead, is endless!

Snake Feller

If your posts are representative of how most Germans think, we may see reverse evolution for the first time resulting in a new race of German Orangutans.

Ok, I'll accept your concession speech.

Snake Feller

You're quite welcome.

I'm lactose intolerant and don't eat junk food.