Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been reading about different kinds of tortoises for several years now. I know that I'd like to branch out to tortoise keeping when the time is right, but I just can't decide on the species. I don't take this move lightly, and I'm asking for some input.

I'm leaning towards Pancake tortoises. I've read extensively about their care, but there always seems to be something missing. In reading about just about every other chelonian, those who have kept them rant and rave about how wonderful they are. It's always fun to read. However, there just doesn't seem to be this type of enthusiasm concerning Pancake tortoises. Is this because they're still relatively rare in the hobby?

I'd love to hear from Pancake keepers, both past and present. Please be frank...love them, hate them, boring, exciting, etc... Thanks in advance!

Just remembered, I stopped some guy in Daytona who was carrying a deli cup with a juvenile Pancake that he had just purchased. He said that he kept them before. His basic statement when I asked what they're like to keep was, "They're ok." I'm pretty sure that this was his first CB animal, though. Maybe that would make a difference.

Ken,
I have kept several groups of Pancake Tortoises (Malacochersus tornieri). I just parted with my last few about a month ago in a trade. They are quite interesting little animals but to me when I look at them I don't think "tortoise". Maybe it's because of their appearance (being flat and all) or it's their overall way of going about things. I never could stay completely focused on them throughout the years and I always ended up moving on from them. I also did this with Stars, Leopards, Red-foots, Elongateds, Yellow-foots, and Burmese browns. None of them ever really jumped at me. When I think of a tortoise I think Hermanns, Ibera, or Marginated (probably because they are my main tortoise projects lol). I also think Aldabra, Galapagos or Sulcatta....it's a weird way of seeing things but hey, everyone's different.

Although they are wonderful animals, Pancakes just never did it for me. They are pretty much one of the best tortoises to choose when housing indoors due to their small size, this is why many hobbyists keep them. Along with Egyptians and Western Hermanns, Pancakes are very suitable for keepers who cannot provide their pets with an outdoor enclosure due to space.

I also noticed that my Pancakes wouldn't "run" to me for food when they saw me like my other species did. I did have a few that had some personality on them but compared to other species, they lacked a bit. This of course is not true for every specimen out there. I have heard over and over again that Leopards show little personality. For the most part my leopards did back that up but I will never forget an adult male I had named "Sid". He was one of the most personable tortoises I ever owned....right up there with Iberas.

Over all I think Pancakes are great tortoises and a wonderful addition to any collection. For the tortoise collector who likes to have a bit of everything, these are a "must have".
For some reason they just didn't make it to my top list but I am sure you will hear different from many others.

-Chris

Thanks for the great input Chris!

Ever since our conversations, I've been considering Hermann's more and more. You know I've always admired them since reading those old British husbandry books.

You're one of the people that I was thinking about when considering Pancakes. I knew that you had kept them based on your photo albums. But, you never really talked about them.

I'm less concerned about them being "tortoise-like" as I love emydids. I'll keep what you said in mind, though. Were yours captive bred? I'm wondering if the personality issue is a factor of CB vs. those imported when the laws permitted it.

Thanks again.

Another factor to consider is that many of the pancakes being advertized on the internet these days are illegal imports from East Africa, where they are in trouble in the wild. Until the loophole is closed there are lots of pancakes being sold as "long term captives." It would be great if you didn't support this recent exploitation and buy only cb pancakes or else some other species.

No doubt! If I ever do purchase some, they will be hatchlings or very near so. There is a breeder that I trust who holds back his hatchlings (only three or four per year) until they are sexable juveniles. If I can afford the price increase, I'll purchase some from him. They are raised indoors.

I never purchase adult chelonians anymore. When dealing with the species that I have...NA Woods, Blandings, Western Ponds, box turtles, etc., purchasing hatchlings is my best method of making sure that I'm getting captive bred individuals. With highly protected species, I'm always concerned. Also, when dealing with a tortoise like the Pancake, trying to acclimate an adult of uncertain origin to life indoors in the humid Southeast would be a little bit like slowly pealing off all of my fingernails. Even if they are "legal", they may have not been kept indoors.

I certainly won't buy LTC, and I'll even be cautious about CB. I was actually considering picking some up at the Daytona show, as there were several juveniles available at good prices. However, one vendor put up a sign, "These are not smuggled". They were referring to juveniles if I remember correctly. Obviously, he thought that someone's animals WERE smuggled. The whole thing turned me off and I scrapped the idea completely. It just made me nervous.

Thanks for the input.

Ken,
I had both wild caught and captive bred pancakes. Surprisingly enough, the wild caught ones were the individuals that I liked better. They were the ones who actually showed a bit of personality. Although they were heavily infested with nematodes, once they were panacured they became rather healthy. Even though pancakes aren't my favorites at all, I NEVER had a health issue with one. The captive bred's were nice as well, just liked to hide a lot more. I had both hatchlings and 4 to 5" captive breds. I definitely do not agree with all the tortoise smuggling going on but I will say that once acclimated properly, there is NOTHING like a LTC animal. They are just incredible animals. Big, strong, tank like animals that behave so naturally when given proper attention and care. Almost all of my mediterranean tortoises are LTC and they are the most magnificant creatures I have ever gotten the pleasure to work with. I have TRUE adult Testudo hermanni hermanni that came from Italy years ago and when you watch these things for even as little as 10 minutes you just say "wow....these are really something." There is also something wonderful you get out of raising a captive bred turtle or tortoise. I have some captive bred adults in my NA wood group and they are just outstanding turtles.

-Chris

You can't go wrong with a Hermanns tortoise. I had a CB pancake for a couple of years & while it was very pretty, it was completely personality-free.
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Thanks for the input! And nice looking tort.

I feel like a dummy. I was looking at that bag of greens, and I thought, "Wow, those grocery store marketing geniuses even put a picture of a tortoise on their bag!" My wife was looking over my shoulder and said, "Uh, why is their a turtle in that guys bag of salad." Funny stuff, too many lawn mower fumes today.

I here ya, brother. I still think that the few remaining wild box turtles have I have are more impressive than my captive bred individuals, especially the males. I think that they can be tougher, and more wiley because they had to make it out there for so long with no help. Once I move my juveniles to their outdoor pens, I do start to see them come "alive" though.

I just can't justify getting WC animals anymore. Not only are many of the species that I keep protected, but I love the fact that I'm not impacting wild populations. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy. Plus, our hobby is under such close scrutiny right now and I think it'll only get worse. If we can establish self-sustaining captive populations of herps, and don't have to deal with WC animals anymore, I think it'll improve our credibility in others' eyes. I'm a HUGE proponent of captive breeding. What always accompanies any information about a threatened species?"...suffers from collection for the pet trade."

As far as the tortoises, it is a freaking NIGHTMARE to acclimate a WC, dry climate species to my area. The outside air is swampy nearly 75% of the year, and it is always more humid indoors also. I used to live in NJ, and the humidity there is nothing compared to here. I made the mistake of getting some WC adult Ornate box turtles once. Well, several bottles of Fortaz, three egg-free years, and 500 cusses and headaches later they were finally acclimated. It wasn't worth it. It was like torture for them, and me. I purchased some CB hatchling Desert box turtles several years ago, and I haven't had a single problem with them yet. They have lived outdoors for 2 years.

Thanks for the input about the Pancakes, and the Hermanns. You may not want to encourage me so much to get a Hermanns. You know who I'm gonna contact when I have a question!! You'll be sick of me in no time.

Haha, you know me by now through e-mails that I don't shut up when it comes to turtles! I'm gonna push to get a hermanns now so that you DO starting asking questions! I can talk "turtle" for hours lol.

I know what you mean with humidty. I'm sure it's worse by you but it does become a pain here. I never kept my pancakes outside...heck I even kept most of my big leopards inside thanks to good old NJ weather. Just this past week I had to bring all my hermanns, greeks and marginateds in because of all the rain we got! I had tubs and rubbermades everywhere! It was complete hell for a wole week. Even in spring this year so many of my females kept getting delayed with nesting because they would go to dig and then of course the sky opens up right then.

That's why I stick to native spceies and the mediterranean tortoises....they can handle it to an extent.

Our hobby is really being watched closely now and it's a pain in the butt. NJ Fish&Game knows of every single turtle/tortoise I own and I always have to send in updates to them if I get something new or if something dies. I hope it doesn't get too much worse than it already is but I have to agree with you, I think it definitley will.

>>I certainly won't buy LTC, and I'll even be cautious about CB. I was actually considering picking some up at the Daytona show, as there were several juveniles available at good prices. However, one vendor put up a sign, "These are not smuggled". They were referring to juveniles if I remember correctly. Obviously, he thought that someone's animals WERE smuggled. The whole thing turned me off and I scrapped the idea completely. It just made me nervous.

Yep, that was me. I'm sick and tired of the nonsense in the classifieds about CB Pancakes when they are obviously WC animals. If you know how that whole thing works (bringing them in via Europe) then you know it's a load of BS! (selling WC as CB). Call a Spade a Spade. So, I was fed up with the junk I saw and put on the sign. Sorry if it turned you off, but it's just the way I see it and I wanted to let people know these are my CBB animals. I've been producing them for 12?! years now and a number of folks know me and what I produce.

The image with this post is what captive breeding actually is. A number of folks on the classifieds never saw this action with the animals they're trying to hock. That event happened in Africa years ago...

Matt

Here is how I see this.
Pancake Tortoise are very very cool looking but they are not the friendliest species of tortoise I keep. I am not saying they are like your "average" shy hingeback tortoise but they are nothing like a Yellow Foot, Red Foot, Sulcata, or an emmys when it comes to personallity.
I personally love there look and that they stay small. I picked up one myself in Daytona and so far I like him. I havent had any problems with her yet.
The thing that I like the least about them or atleast in my experience is that they are not beasts when it comes to food. (They do not come running or they do not eat very much)
But overall I am very glad I baught one.
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I am 15 years old and I have over 100 Turtles/Tortoises which 45 of those are different species!
Turtles are like potato chips, you can't have just one.

Thanks Rob, I appreciate the input. It seems that most people share your opinion.