Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Other than scale counts -what are the visual differences in a Suriname BCC vs Peruvian BCC? Pattern? Color? Head Shape? Can one tell the difference just from a pic?

Sincerely,
Warren

Surely he can provide some VISUAL for the cause....

M/

>>Other than scale counts -what are the visual differences in a Suriname BCC vs Peruvian BCC? Pattern? Color? Head Shape? Can one tell the difference just from a pic?
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>Warren

n/p

This is one of those very frustrating questions.. basically the inquirer is saying " I can't tell the difference between these boas by how they look" Well, the difference is in how they look!
.
My standard answers go something like this:
.
Look more closely!
.
Lucky you! you can get a common boa and enjoy it as a high-dollar Peru redtail!
.
Then to you, there is no difference! (that one has apparently made me at least one enemy)
.
I will allow that if you haven't looked at a lot of Boas some of the differences that are obvious to more experienced observers may be subtle to you.. But I don't think I can give a short-course on how to positively ID boas.. Here's a few tips.
.
Between Boas of Suriname and those of Peru I can give these hints. The dorsal saddles on Suriname boas and those on Peru Boas are different (and fall within a slightly different count range). Not all Suriname boas have strongly peaked saddles but even those do not have the same-shaped saddles as a Peru redtail. Those few Peru snakes that might show some peaking again do not have the same peaks (in the same places) as even a slightly peaked Suriname boa. The ventral patterning is different between the two as are the side badges. The two groups display a different range of color and tone that barely overlaps. Head markings on the two can be similar but again with the way their base coloring differs this can also be a clue.
.
Anytime you make a list of things to look for (or not to look for) some smart-alec will point to one example he thinks disproves what your checking for. That's why you have to look closely at lots of animals and learn to look for the right overall combination of traits, not just one thing. Ultimately of course only knowing where an animal came from defines its' locality.. but very many people do use their experience and observation to ID many boas by looks, and they do it fairly accurately.
.
And I haven't even mentioned behavior or developmental differences!
.

-----
Gus
A. Rentfro
RioBravoReptiles.com
www.riobravoreptiles.com

"Quality is not an accident. Perfectly healthy animals are a minimum requirement.. everything else is just salesmanship" gus

I understand the complexity of the question and I appreciate your attempt to define it. I fortunately am able to tell the difference between BCI and BCC, however, some of my confusion has come on the classified side as pics and reputation are all we have to go on when purchasing an animal. I have seen many Surinames that could be mistaken for Peruvians or Peruvians as Surinames. Now with all the crossbreeding and un-natural morphing I wonder what the future holds for those of us who enjoy a pure genetic animal. Breeders like you may be all we have 20 years from now. Thanks again for your response and continue to show us those beautiful pics.

Sincerely,
Warren

Well said!
To my understanding Peruvian Boas have a different latin name (Boa Consticor Longicauda/or/ Ortoni-depending on literature and maybe sub area of Peru). They also have a unique scale count and the saddles are different from the Surinames. There are of course some minor variations that will occur among individuals.
It is good to look at a lot of them too. See the ads in the Classifieds here this site for examples. There may be some BCC from Peru but I think that may be dubious, as I had some Anacondas from San Francisco! (Joke!). True also that there will always be some smart alec to challenge every detail but in general true Peruvian boas are their own subspecies. I hope this helps!
Cheers
Tom Dobrov

Hi and thanks for your reply.
.
I believe most all Boa we see from Peru are Boa c. constrictor or true redtail Boas. Aside from some overt morphology like colour and pattern they are considered the same animal as those found in Suriname and other adjacent locales.
.
Longicauda is considered an animal of the more temperate highlands of the Peru/Ecuador border. Ortoni is the subject of some debate, it may be an intermediate form, but is recognised by those closely familiar with it. Much work is being done now on these. The new book on Boa by Vin Russo will have new photos and info on Orton's boa and it's possible relations..
.
Regards,
.

-----
Gus
A. Rentfro
RioBravoReptiles.com
www.riobravoreptiles.com

"Quality is not an accident. Perfectly healthy animals are a minimum requirement.. everything else is just salesmanship" gus

Thanks for the info!
The guy I got my female from insisted mine was Longicauda and he was very familiar with them. (Hmmm)
I am now unsure of what I have!
But she is a beauty, perfect saddles etc
This is a great forum with lots to learn about!
Cheers
Tom