Reptile & Amphibian Forums

recurring problem with my ackie. I have a group of four healthy critters raised together since birth. However, one has recently been developing a "growth inbetween its toes and on the "pad" of its left foot. Whatever it is, it's black and seems crumble off if when i examine her(i think its a she) and exposes tissue. After i remove it, the hand seems to get better and then the problem starts all over again. the growth causes some pretty intense swelling. they are all eating and acting as usual with no symptoms in the others

75 gallon aquarium with a covered top
50-60% humidity
retes stack with a 130 basking spot
I WAS keeping them on cypress mulch when the problem started but they are now on regular topsoil
plenty of hides
plenty of temperature options

i keep trying to step back and re-examine the setup but i can't find the cause.

does her paw leak any fluid after the growht is removed?
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2.2.1 Bearded Dragons
1.0.0 Lemon Pastel Ball Pythons (NERD Line)
0.0.1 Water Monitors
1.0.0 Pastel Red Tailed boa Het. for Albino
0.0.2 Yellow Ackie Monitors
And Counting...

Hi, I know you posted this on our forum, but I feel it may be better to respond here. As this is more about you then the monitors.

Your monitor is screaming something is wrong and you keep saying, but they have "this and that" hmmmm a list of instructions. Like that means nothing should be wrong.

You must understand, caresheets, or a list of instructions, is no more then a guide to the possible positive outcome. It does not mean its a sure thing. I know, with simple reptiles like colubrids, following instructions can normally lead to success. But unfortunately, these ain't them. Monitors are GREAT fun, because they keep us on our toes. In fact, snakes are so boring(no mental challange) I will fail from falling asleep. The key adjustments for them is so few and far between, I can lose interest. With monitors, you HAVE to make key decisions, nearly everyday. Why I am saying this is, I hope you never expect to have them run on their own.

To me, many of you treat monitors like building a model airplane/car/boat/ship. Most follow instructions and if you do that the model will be build. If you do a good job, the model will look nice. If not, parts may be in the wrong place, glue drips will be here or there, decals may be in the wrong place. Then there are model builders that make models that actually work. Here the instructions tell you how to put the model together. But you still have to learn to fly/drive/sail it. Of course, the instructions will offer a basic guide on how to operate the model. But you still have to learn how to operate it. In most cases, newbies will indeed crash their model. Even smart newbies. This means, you should expect to have problems with your monitors.

ALso, even those with the experienced, they will eventually crash their models, the reason is, they just have to test the limits of the darn thing. The result is often the same, but at least the experienced ones got to operate the model for a longer time.

I know, I hate analogies too, but talking about monitors does not work as most do not WANT to understand, they are not so smart. You see, being smart with monitors IS making the right decisions, at the right time. And understanding what is actually happening.

In this case, you have a glue drip. There is a problem, even though you used glue just like the instructions said. BUT the question is, did you use that glue correctly??????? Obviously you did not. As you have a problem. Do you get that? Just because you followed instructions, DOES NOT MEAN YOU FOLLOWED THEM CORRECTLY. Only with monitors, what tells you that you followed instructions correctly is, LACK OF PROBLEMS. following them incorrectly means problems.

For instance, Cypress mulch, who the heck told you(gave you instructions) to use that. And next, what the heck is topsoil????? I would guess in most cases, topsoil is not what your looking for. I think topsoil is rich dirt that folks who grow plants are looking for. What monitors like, is that crappy soil from the desert that only cactus will grow in. As in, not rich, not topsoil. Ackies are a arid land monitor. They do not occur where there is TOPSOIL. But sadly, I cannot say that the soil is what caused your problem.

To offer a base to understand monitors. When exposed to things that are not suitable, they do not roll over dead. What they do is stress out(internally) and the immune system becomes compromised. Then they fall to any old common antigen(bad thing). Again I cannot say this is what is causing your problem. The reality is, a healthy monitor can heal from huge gaping wounds in a couple days. A unhealthy monitor develops problems without help(injury). What is the problem here is, you think feeding means something. Well with snakes, they will stop feeding, when something is wrong. With monitors, they feed up until and sometimes after they are DEAD. Monitors do not die, they have to be murdered, stomped, killed. They do not go easily.

Also temps, who told you 130F for a hot spot. Let me remind you, I am the fool who started this hotspot thing. And I never recomended 130F. I believe I say the MINIMUM is around 135F. I always offer more then that. But that is OK. Below that, problems can increase. Of course there are all sorts of combinations that will allow the use of lower temps. But unfortunately, below 135F means, you need to be experienced. And know these combinations. As in, 135F or more, allows you to not have to know so much. For instance, its not the hotspot thats important, its the range of temps in the surrounding areas that are IMPORTANT.

So all this bull beans comes down to this, a reoccuring problem means something is wrong, no ifs, ands or buts. What is it? heck if I know, I am not there. But it appears to be a stress induced immune system problem. Or maybe a splinter from the dang cypress mulch(cypress mulch is full of splinters) Cheers

thx guys, varanus, it just seems to be raw when it is removed, no liquid and after soaking, it seems to almost fall off on its own

yea frank i know that something has to change. I have been trying to approach the situation like u said, with a problem-solving attitude using commmon sense to try and find what im not providing them or what other factor is leading to this.

I already know its not the monitor, its me. I kept telling myself a lot of what u said, that a healthy monitor's immune system could tackle most any problems. I was just maybe hoping the situation might ring a bell with someone. I find it hard to belive that something similar hasnt happened at least once in some reptile/monitor/herp keepers experience.

the only reason i mentioned the basics of the cage setup is so that everyone had a bit of gist of their setup that, to some degree, meets some needs of the animals, because i know if i didnt include it, it would be everyone's first questions.(it obviously doesnt and needs to change)

i hate to put anyone's words up here without their permission but proexotics used to use cypress mulch with ackies and now uses soil mixes

sorry in advance if thats incorrect but im pretty sure that is the case.

i live in the northeast. its rich soil to shale rock around here
the best thing i could find is plain old dirt(topsoil) which doesnt include any kind of fertilziers or manures btw.

later today im gonna link some pics to the animals.

as always, I appreciate ur guys' time.

oh and just one more thing i forgot to add

why the hell don't the other monitors exhibit symptoms if the the setup needs to changed so badly?

grrrr monitors, love to hate them. hehe

First, I have traveled the country and for the most part, you can find great soil that works in all parts. Ok, there are small areas, like southern LA. Or the blacksoil parts of Iowa. But a short drive to the barateria or across lake pont. Will get you some great stuff. Same for Iowa.

I would look around areas with hills, then follow the small creeks, when there is high water, these creeks wash and seperate the soil, they then place them at the bends of creeks. An example, when I went to the Maryland show, the area was covered in topsoil(no good) but right next to my hotel was a construction site, and where they were digging footers, they dug up the most beautiful and perfect for ackies soil, I have ever seen. They made huge piles. It was even orange, to match Red ackies home soil.

Sores on toes can be caused by lots of things, from being too dry(this causes the loss of circulation on the small parts(toes and tailtips go first) to bugs nibbling on the only thing they can nibble on, the toes. Again, only you know if any of this could be the cause.

Also, the weak go first. If you have adverse conditions, would you expect otherwise. To have them all die or become sick at once would mean, something completely horrible. Of course signs of something wrong will only occur on the weakest first, afterall, you did do SOME homework.

About Robyn, My guess is, you should ask him. He would be glad to explain it to you.

Now consider this, it seems you think neither Robyn or I can't make mistakes or do something wrong. I really hate to break this to you, but I make mistakes every single day. Thats why it does not bother me, when some foul on here tries to point out how wrong I am. In the end, even after all my mistakes and they are numerous, I have far more success then the fouls telling me how wrong I am. That makes me wonder how many mistakes and of what magnitude their mistakes are. Consider, I am wrong, but I have better results. Hmmmmmmmmm

Sorry for that jab, but I do make mistakes all the time. Also I understand the methods I use are only guidelines and not carved in stone. What is carved in stone is YOUR results, that is what you go by. What others should not be your concern. They may be able to offer hints that help. But after the lites go out, hahahahahahahahaha they never go out with lites 24/7, hahahahahaha, its all about your responsibility.

Next slow down, don't worry so much and look at it with a clear mind, not with stuff everyone is telling you. I bet its something simple, it usually is. Cheers

hey frank, found some new soil and i think it is on the money.

its just plain old fill that may even be that same sandy orange soil. I never really thought to give it a try at my original home, up in north jersey, "fill" meant shale rock mixed with mud and other kinds of crap laying around outside.

they seem to be liking it and have some pretty sick burrows already

*crosses fingers*

figured i'd share some other news:

got my first spider ball today, and already on the first day, eats better than my 800 gram male pastel

breeding season is so close!!!

...poolsand. In the NE region you can find it at most nurseries, garden centers and pool stores. It is just natural sandy dirt. It is low in organics and drains well. The grain sizes range from dirt (fine) to small, smooth pebbles and everything in between. It holds burrows very well and is not sharp like man made (crushed) sand. I live in Buffalo, NY and have found it at many, many garden centers in the area. Good luck.

Will