Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I understand everyone here knows more than everyone else here about reptiles, but I asked a question. I did not need or warrant a rude reply. I asked because I don't want to deprive an animal of the proper diet. It's silly to scare people who want more information away.

I agree that sometimes people are a little abrasive when delivering information, but I tried to say "no" in a nice, mildly humorous way. Sometimes you just have to take the information for what it is and ignore the rest of the garbage. I feel that this forum often gives off a very tense vibe...some people just don't know how to lighten up.

So stick with the iguana if you want to feed a vegen diet. You may already know that plenty of other reptiles do well on veggies, like Uromastyx and Turtles. As far as monitors and tegus go, youll have to feed them prey items one way or another.

If we didn't mass produce a "canned mush" for dogs and cats, they would eat the same thing. But somehow its okay to feed them beaten up mush as long as we "don't know" where it came from. Its just the way most of nature works. Animals eat animals.

Thank you for the reply. I don't keep cats or dogs either. I'm aware of the practices of the food companies. I was just trying to find an animal who could share my diet so there would be less moral issues to keeping it. It seems like everyone here realizes that it's kind of a rude forum though. Just advice, but you could help a lot more people if you are kind to them and just offer them advice. Had I owned a monitor and gotten replies like those to a question for help I would not come back.

Thanks again

Wait,
So you thought what I said was unhelpful and unkind?
I don't understand what moral issues you may have but vegans I've known were such because they were against the unfair and cruel treatment of animals that humans slaughter. What that has to do with animals eating other animals as a natural behavior is beyond me. But kudo's to you for sticking to your moral beliefs and doing research before diving into something. Instead of just buying one impulsively and dumping it when you found out it wasn't a vegan.

Yeah, many of us agree that the forum is rude, but the people that come here and are nice get scared off. Instead they should stick around and send out some positive/nice vibes. Isn't that sticking up for what you believe in also, instead of just leaving?

And its nice that you are offering advice to me on how to treat people, but unfortunately you are preaching to the wrong person. I probably have similar beliefs to you and often try to keep the peace. Im not the one(s) around here that is rude to everyone.

Had you owned a monitor and "gotten replies like this, you would have never come back"? How does that work, you don't even have a monitor and yet you still came back to ask why everyone here is stuck up? Im confused. But if you are interested in monitors or decide to keep them it would be great for you to stick around.

Without getting involved in this particular argument, let me say this:

I frequent ET boa and GT python forums, and those people are constantly vying for kingship, cursing at newbies, accusing new keepers of being dumb, uninformed kids.

I'm in fish, rabbits, gliders, herps, birds and bugs and herp keepers are hands down the only obnoxious group around. (This is not directed at anyone here, I'm just searching for some info on a good starter monitor.)

In my opinion, its because of people like you. Please do not be offended. But this forum has people who care about monitors. You know, people who do not come here to make friends.

The problem is needy people who want confirmation, someone to agree and get along with them. Unfortnately at the cost of an animal.

These people put their feelings above the needs and well being of the monitors. This causes lots of discourse.

For instance, most needy people lead with a problem, my monitors, this and that.(you know, needs this, is dying, is sick, doesn't feed, etc). Then when that is responded too, it is not what that person wanted to hear(of course its not), so they blame all others for being rude, after all, the first thing to recognize is, its the keepers fault, it has to be, they are the keeper.

For instance, I do not come here to make friends, I believe friends happen, you do not go how to get them(needy) So yes, when I respond in a direct way concerning the wellbeing of a monitor, I am rude. I am very rude in that way. I am concerned about the subject, not the human(they have lots of resourses to fullfill their needs, monitors don't)

Then those people accuse me of being rude, then those people respond to a similar post and they try to help the monitor, then those very same people are accused of being rude. Actually I think humans are pretty funny, I guess its why I gravitate towards animals. They do not worry about this rude crapola. They like you thru trust and support. Perfect.

If you need to be buttered up over your captive animals health, you should not come here, go to a bar/club/event/etc and actually meet real people. If you come here for advise, then use it or not.

Consider, needy people cannot get fullfilled here. There is not way for that to happen. Its about monitors, not people.

Maybe KS should get rid of those subforums and only have two. One for monitors, and the other for people using monitors as a social tool. Then I would know how to act and what is of REAL concern. Cheers

Why does your advice always have to come with a catch, its very easy to answer a question without reprimanding them like a child, seriously you can give advice or not, its your choice, but if you choose to become involved then at least do so in a proper manner, just becuase this is the internet and we all have the gift of anonymity doesnt mean our manners have to go out the window, I dont know about you but my mother told me if I didnt have somthing nice to say dont say anything at all, this especially applies to you.

says to you, is only about you. How do you know what my mother said? and are you saying your mother is smarter then my mother? Man are you rude and a creep to be talking about my mother. You really should not act like that. Etc etc etc etc.

You see redtail daddy. Your as rude or more rude then I, as I never talked about your mother. But, did you really did mention my mother? But I read into it that you did. Sir, this is exactly how these goofy arguements occur. By reading something into a comment that was not really there.

AS I took your comment and twisted it to be about my mother, you folks like or need, to twist something until you can make it rude. Well go ahead. Will that help you? yes, but will it help your monitor? a much better question.

The reality and great benefit of these forums is to be exposed to a number of different responses from a number of different perspectives. Your free to read them or not, to use the information or not. To choose whom you want to read. Is that not so? So, its a very easy task, don't read what you do not like.

In a silly way, your saying this forum should be the way YOU want it. What makes you so special that it should be your way? Have you done anything to make anyone think it should be your way. Or are you just taking advantage of the student telling the teacher how to teach?????

About the twist and smack. I imagine the problem is suffering animals. It does indeed bother me that methods to keep monitors strong and healthy have been discussed, written about and DONE of a very long time. But sadly, very few are interested in that. So maybe the smack is a little payback for making the monitors suffer.

The key to successful keeping is to take responsibility of your actions. Sir, if there is a problem with your(any keeper) monitors, ITS YOUR FAULT(the keepers fault) The SMACK is letting the keeper know its their fault and THEY are the ones who will have to find a solution. These smacks you mention come in two forms. The responder telling them its their fault. Or the real bad one, the original poster understanding it was their fault. That really gets them mad. So they have no alternative but to attack the messenger. In my case, I could care less as long as they realize its their responsibility and do something to help the poor monitor.

Also many posters seem to think someone will hand them stuff on a silver platter. Guess what, it ain't going to happen, so when they find that out, they get mad. Which has nothing to do with me.

The truth is, I am a normal guy, I have some answers and can be of some help. The problem is, do these folks really want help? in most cases no they don't. In some cases they do, I have helped lots of keepers, but surely its not my responsibility to help keepers. My responsibility is to care for MY monitors. If my care works and others want to know about what I am doing, I guess they are going to have to put up with the precieved rudeness. Or they can go to someone else, its really one of many choices. Cheers

I have never been rude to someone who wasnt rude to me first, I give everyone a chance, if they abuse it its their fault

So you were insulting my mother?

I hope you get the point, but I am sure you will not. You see, you only mentioned what your mother said to you. But of course I could take it as a reflection of what my mother said, because I obviously do not follow your rules or teachings.

The point is, none of this has anything to do with monitors. Its about you insulting my mother or not. While we are now focusing on this, the subject of the post(monitors) is lost in cyberspace. This is exactly what happens in most posts that end up being about people.

I could explain it to you, but I am sure you do not care. Oh well, a little try. Because most of the folks having problems have very little experience, they most likely cannot make heads or tails of what I am saying. So I use analogies. The problem is, they do not understand enough about the animals to understand the analogies(why I do not like analogies) So all they understand is human interaction and dwell on that.

By not understanding what I am saying, they feel stupid. This upsets them. So they can twist and turn whatever is said to make the post about something they do understand, which is People. You folks make it about people(personal) mainly because that is all you understand.

In my humble opinion, if someone does not understand what is trying to be said, then ask more questions. Or ask someone else. But to twist and turn words to make them offensive to you, is of no value to the person asking the question, to the poster thats responding and to anyone lurking(which is by far the most numerous)

Most commonly, instead of asking more or better questions, the poster will attack me. Now I am just like you, if your going to attack me, then lets get it on and have some fun. You should understand, I keep monitors because they are fun. But there surely are other things that are fun too, and mucking with people is one of them. You may consider, that after the first couple of posts, it becomes people just playing with other people. People do like to play with eachother, it happens in all walks of life.

So now understand, I am like them and will do what they do. Why you ask, because its fun. And surely(shirley) some of us come here to have fun. Cheers and have some fun Please.

Im here for the fun too, the reason why we butt heads so much is probably because we have the same opinions in many instances, and an intellectual duel definately puts a smile on my face, alas today my migraine persists, im going to go feed all those damn baby garder snakes in my backyard to my savannah, till tomorrow

There are no vegetarian monitors. Period, so no one will be able to help you out. I will go out on a limb and say, We(the people here) think you should already know this. As we are sure you have been told. If not, now you have been.

There is only one species that is partly a fruit feeder, but the kind of fruit it eats is unavailable in this country and so is that monitor species. So that is useless info for you as well.

Please understand, your question is like you going to a car dealership and wanting to know where you can get a car that is driven by water. Sorry

I will tell you why poeple in are stuckup, becuase the majority of people in here have no people skills that is why they are so successful with their reptiles, when you take out the human interaction factor, there leaves much more time to drown yourself in all things monitors. Is it posible to be a responsible well educated reptile keeper and also be a likeable person? of course, but dont tell them that. I have found myself being snippy with newbies before, but then I have to remind myself that I was a newbie at one point and many of these poeple were very rude, they were stuck in the way that they do things, thinking becuase the monitors are alive that whatever they are doing must be the correct method and anyone who says otherwise is uninformed or ignorant, even when presented with scientific evidence, or speaking with someone who went to school for years just to be qualified enough to work with these animals on the professional level, they still think they are right. There is no changing this, so after you log off enjoy your family, your friends, your life, and wallow in it, because while these people may know more than you about monitors you have somthing they will never have, a life and the confidence to know that you are a good person, curious and knowledge seeking, kudos to you for standing up for yourself. As for the rest of the board, guess whose back??????? ME

Ask me what 5 times 5 is. if i know the answer, ill tell ya its 25. If i dont, i dont reply.
Here on king snake you ask a question, as simple as 5 times 5, you will get a answer like this.....your a retard, are you joken? buy a cat, dog or pet rat.(not all people but a few)
I posted to this earlyer and it was shunned. but if you saw it the 24 hours it was posted you would have TONS of people sayen "oh no he didnt just speak the truth".
Nothin in my post was anything worth a kick, bann or anything of that nature. but guess what? It did, musta fired up the wrong person? Man just read down some of these post, you will see my point. The only way some of these guys get off is to stomp on the weak. and what better way than over the net! Love to see how they answer the 5 times 5 question, in person, at a reptile show, to some 1 of size.
Here let me dig into you guys how yo dig into most on this site just from this post top 2 bottom.
1.holygouda,"I agree that sometimes people are a little abrasive when delivering information, but I tried to say "no" in a nice, mildly humorous way. TRANSLATED-i just wanted to puff out my chest and got called out on it so i hope this clears it up.
2.FR,"Actually I think humans are pretty funny, I guess its why I gravitate towards animals."- you gotta be kidden me you say "humans" the way you just said it. find a way to build up your self esteem other than talken down on the (classmates)if you want to be the teacher. if your not a "teacher" then stop given a 3 page report to every question asked on these fourms.
3.RedTaileDaddy, "Why does your advice always have to come with a catch, its very easy to answer a question without reprimanding them like a child, seriously you can give advice or not, its your choice, but if you choose to become involved then at least do so in a proper manner, just becuase this is the internet and we all have the gift of anonymity doesnt mean our manners have to go out the window, I dont know about you but my mother told me if I didnt have somthing nice to say dont say anything at all, this especially applies to you."-what can i say? NOTHING and why?
4.FR,"RE: I am sorry, but what your mother says to you, is only about you. How do you know what my mother said?"-RedTaledDaddy just answerd it for me in his first line above..."Why does your advice always have to come with a catch,"
5.FR,"I hope you get the point, but I am sure you will not."-great point frank, i realy wish i had your human skills.
FRANK your like TO of DALLAS, 1 of the best at what he does.but do you want to go down in history as the TO of the game? or the Berry Sanders of the game?

Your five times five comment is of use, only all you folks keep saying 5 times 5 equals 3 and fight to the death and make all things personal when told its not 3 but instead 25. And yes, most of the solutions are just that simple. But because you folks think your kinda smart, you cannot stand that your wrong. Its 25, not 3.

ABout me and history, again that makes me laugh. As monitor keepers only place in history is what you did yesterday. Monitor keepers do not keep a history of people, they keep a history of animals.

Now if you are asking what legacy I will leave. Thats another story. I have a history of establishing many species. I did this with kingsnakes too. But as the years pass, that history changes, now kingsnakes that I established are taken over by current breeders and it now belongs to them. My guess is, thats how it should be.

Besides your analogy is way off, I would not be a TO, I would be more like a Charles Barkley. I simply tell it like it is, oh wait, how I see it. And I do not have a problem being wrong, because over time, it all better be wrong as I am not all that good at this. I surely hope it gets better and we learn more.

In other words, as long as I have been doing this, I am still learning in leaps and bounds, yet you name callers keep thinking I am picking on you. The truth is, you really should be picking on yourselves, keeping monitors alive muchless breeding them is SO VERY EASY.

Back to Charles B. I was watching an interview where the news fella was saying this pro player and that pro player is not so good and on and on. Barkley stopped him and said, SIR, your wrong. Those bench warmers, in fact all players in the NBA are very good, they are the elite, even the bench warmers. He then said, its not a matter of being good, you have to be great to be in the league, its a matter of fitting on a team.

About in person, hahahahahahahahaha I will say much more in person. And I do not care how big you are. Consider, I was raised in Watts(the ghetto) I was raised fighting, I boxed, then took martial arts, then moved to middle class america and wrestled thru AAU, and NCAA thru high school and college. I then moved around the country and became a practice dummy of several programs. Sadly I am old now. hahahahahahahaha but I can still get around.

But you must consider, keeping monitors is not about any of the last paragraph. You simply must feel inferior as you take it personal. Its not personal, its simply to benefit the life of your monitors. You can take the information and run with it, or not, its up to you, not me. I simply don't care about you, as I do not know you. I do know monitors and I care about them. If I knew you, that would mean you would know me. Then we most likely would get along great.

So as Barkley would put it, You simply do not know me, and you must not know monitors either, or you would not take it personal.

On another interview with Barkley, they mentioned that barkley did not like white people. Because of all the problems he has off the court. He said, I have nothing against white people. I simply do not like jerks(people picking fights with him, because of who he is) It doesn't matter what color they are. I have to wonder why you fellas want to fight with someone who is trying to help you?????????? that sir, amazes me.

Of course its a barb or offense to you, if I point out you are off or wrong or worse yet, ignorant of something. I understand, that you can take that as a problem. But what I do not understand is, how are you going to understand what is right without understanding what your doing wrong. You will have to explain that to me.

I have tried a million times to explain nicely, but sadly, the result is the same. You must be right, because you read it in reptiles or a petshop expert told you it was right. Whatever it is. Cheers and try to take info for what it is, to HELP your monitors. Which is the subject of this forum. ITs not a forum for the protection of monitor keepers egos. Cheers again.

Hey translator...

"1.holygouda,"I agree that sometimes people are a little abrasive when delivering information, but I tried to say "no" in a nice, mildly humorous way. TRANSLATED-i just wanted to puff out my chest and got called out on it so i hope this clears it up."

That actually meant; I told you what you wanted to know in a joking manner, but you are to uptight to take a joke, so lighten up.

I never claimed to know any more than anyone else(if thats what you are referring to with puff up my chest). I speak from my experiences and research, which at this point in time is limited.

Oh and by the way, if I was to get "called out" in whatever language that is....she would have said...."holygouda why are you such an a-hole?" but thats not what happened.

It is a good thing you are so smart.

Who cares. Really. I am still very new to monitors, and i got a little verbal abuse when i first started came here. But i didn't care, as long as i got an answer. I dont know the people that were rude to me, their just names on my computer. When i was somewhat rude to you, its just because monitors are meat eaters. You were considering getting a monitor, which means you must have somewhat of a fascination with monitors. Why does it HAVE to be vegan for you to own it?
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2.2.1 Bearded Dragons
1.0.0 Lemon Pastel Ball Pythons (NERD Line)
0.0.1 Water Monitors
1.0.0 Pastel Red Tailed boa Het. for Albino
0.0.2 Yellow Ackie Monitors
And Counting...

The problem is most thinking those who try to help are rude.
If you come here with no understanding of monitors and (truthfully no matter how much you believe) otherwise of reptiles, you do not understand when someone is trying to help you because you think they are insulting your intelligence by answering your questions.
I have noticed after participating in internet forums on monitors now for years, and with years of experince beforehand with them, that when a new keeper with little real knowledge or experience answers a question for another new keeper they give alot of opinions and dont voice emphasis on what is needed or what is proven, so the reader sees an answer that they like, why because it agrees with what they have been doing or does not tell them what not to do, and does not make them look bad in their own minds for what they have been doing.
In reality when answered by those with real experience or knowledge they feel insulted because they are doing something wrong or they feel that they cant belive they have been so wrong for so long and now neeed to rethink and redesign their cages, diet, temps, etc and want to take it out on those who are trying to help them.
FR said it right years ago when he said that new keepers cannot converse with very experienced keepers and not expect to be very misunderstood because the new keepers have no place to start with their basis of knowledge on these creatures, therefore they feel insulted and do not understand what was advised to them to do. Now, in many cases an experienced keeper neeeds to intercede on some of the exchanges between new keepers to keep things going in the direction of the truth and to help out.
many experinced keepers do not participate here because of the insults, etc by new keepers that do not want to believe that they have been wrong and need to start all over.

First most of these agitated new monitor keepers will only be interested in monitors for a very short time. They will get rid of their monitor or have it die in a very short time. then they will be off to something else and repeat the same thing over in another area. This is very very commonplace.

ALso, When you and I, back away and rest from this maddness, the next person who decides to help others gets accused of the very same things, you know, being rude and all such things. In many cases, these are the same people who accused us of being rude.

In otherwords, being accused of being rude and offensive adjectitives comes with the territory. As you were mentioning.

So as you see, I simply ignore the weird stuff and keep on keeping on, with monitors. I believe thats how it should be. Cheers