Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hiya! Going to a show this weekend, and I'm thinking about getting my yearling creamsicle a girlfriend for next year. I'm curious, though, about what genetics interact well with creamsicle? I've heard that they have a different albino gene than albino corns, so I've really no idea where to start thinking about interactions and such. Thanks a lot for your time,

-P
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1.0.0 Normal corn snake (Frito)
1.0.0 Creamsicle corn (Tang)
0.1.0 Ghost corn (Raynham)
1.1.0 Bay of LA rosy boas (Rivet and Cali)

Creamsicles have the same amel gene as corns. Creamsicles were created by breeding an amel corn to a Great Plains Rat Snake.

Tim

Third Eye

So is amel a dominant gene, or would I have to get an amel (or at least het) to ensure amel babies? Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it!

-P

PS: I'm going to buy a corn genetics book, but that won't happen before this weekend, hence my bothering y'all with my newbie questions
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1.0.0 Normal corn snake (Frito)
1.0.0 Creamsicle corn (Tang)
0.1.0 Ghost corn (Raynham)
1.1.0 Bay of LA rosy boas (Rivet and Cali)

There are no dominant genes in corns. Amel is a simple recessive genetic trait. An amel corn was bred to an Emory. The resulting offspring were then bred together to create creamsicles.

I disagree Tim. Normal is dominant!
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

"You can only take my money for so long. And then I don't have anymore, and then I get angry!"

If you bred an Okeetee to a Miami (both normal, locality-specific color phases) the offspring would be a mixture of the parents' characteristics. The same would be true if you bred an Okeetee to a run-of-the-mill normal looking corn - the offspring would look like neither parent, rather a combination of both. therefore "normal" is co-dom - not dominant.

Tim

a co-dom in corn snake. And in writing!

OK< it's an inside joke.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.herpzilla.com

THATS OK we enjoy questions b/c it keeps us busy i know cre-sics are popular right now so you should breed them!!! personally i dont have one...but if i can find a ziggy one thats affordable-its mine.

~kin
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~SNAKIES~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Corns:
.1 Normal (Gertrude) [just a pet...she started it all]
1. unknown hypo? normal? (Romeo)
1.2 Miami Phase (Hector, Emily, Charlotte) thanks jeff!
1. Miami Phase partial zigzag (Starkey)[Emilys F2 baby]
1. Amel het Blizzard (Dunesbury)
1. Classic het Hypo, poss het Amel, Anery (Cobra)
1.1 Classics (Henry VIII, Cassy) [Emilys F1 babies]
.1 Amel (Pepperoni)
1.1 Hypo zig zags poss HET Caramel (Bernard, Abegail)
.1 Hypo HET Stripe (Gracie Lou)
1.1 Anery HET Motley (Lleroy, Persia)
.1 Candy Cane (Peaches HoneyBlossom) [Just a pet]
1. Abbotts Okeetee (Albert) [Charlottes son]
2 snows coming soon....

Rats:
1.1 Black rats (Willard, Cecily)

Cal Kings:
1.1 Striped Cal Kings (Dweezil, Skunky)
more coming soon...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~LEOPARD GECKOS~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. Normal het Midnight Blizzard (Mr. Spot)
.1 Blizzard (Blitz) was attacked by a cat and still living!
.1? unknown very yellow and brown spots...hypo?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~TURTLES~~~~~~~~~~~~

.1 white cheeked mud (Opel)
.1 snapping turtle (no name, ideas welcome)

~~~~~~~~~~~~OTHER~~~~~~~~~~~~
0.0.1 American toad

>>So is amel a dominant gene, or would I have to get an amel (or at least het) to ensure amel babies? Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it!
>>
>>-P
>>

if you are going to breed the creamsicle you need to breed it to another creamsicle or some other corn/emoryi rat snake mix and you need to make sure to label all ofspring as having emoryi blood.
In case it wasn't clear a creamsicle is a corn snake/emoryi rat snake mix expressing amelanism
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

I think creamsicles and the like are overpriced at US$.05. I'd get her a pure corn of whatever genetic mutant type you prefer.

Paul Hollander

I reckon there's been quite a bit of debate on this and in the Academic: Taxonomy Discussion forum as to the validity of the new classification of American rat snakes. Not everyone believes it and there are plenty of references in literature stating the corn X Great Plains Rat Snakes are naturally occuring intergrades, rather than hybrids.

Just my US.05,

Tim

Olive pits are great. But on the topic.

I have to agree, a snake like the corn and emory have a fairly high likelyhood to breed at some time. I do not see any comparison to a cross between a carpet python and a GTP.

Just my 6 cents
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.herpzilla.com

Let us not forget that these creatures are PETS first, business assets second. That said, any pet is a good pet as long as it is wanted and properly cared for.

This is like trying to argue whether who is better: Led Zepplin, Yanni or Marky Mark And The Funky Bunch. There is no right or wrong. The answer to that quaetion is: What do YOU like?

Otherwise it's best to keep strong opinions to yourself and not offend people (like my Mom) who happen to love Yanni.

Led Zeppelin #1. And I will forgive you for misspelling it too.

But I agree. My one wannabe bloodred is very cool. I may like it more than a nicer bloodred.

But we are in a realm of comparisons. Just like at a dog show. It is commendable if anyone can hold on to their feelings of what is nice, even if it does not meet the best "accepted" criteria.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.herpzilla.com

This just so wrong.

*** 1-800-NOYANNI ***

Operators are Standing By!

J/K

JPD
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

>>I think creamsicles and the like are overpriced at US$.05. I'd get her a pure corn of whatever genetic mutant type you prefer.
>>
>>Paul Hollander

well aren't you special.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

Well, I'm looking for a pure corn. I just don't know what morph would produce the most interesting results with my male creamsicle. So far, I've heard amel and not much else, so I may end up going with that unless there are other ideas!

-P
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1.0.0 Normal corn snake (Frito)
1.0.0 Creamsicle corn (Tang)
0.1.0 Ghost corn (Raynham)
1.1.0 Bay of LA rosy boas (Rivet and Cali)

Just trying to raise a little HECk!
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.herpzilla.com

>>Well, I'm looking for a pure corn. I just don't know what morph would produce the most interesting results with my male creamsicle. So far, I've heard amel and not much else, so I may end up going with that unless there are other ideas!
>>
>>-P
>>-----

why are you looking for a pure corn to breed to your creamsicle?
the offspring will still have emoryi blood
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

aa
-----
Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.herpzilla.com

>>why are you looking for a pure corn to breed to your >>creamsicle?
>>the offspring will still have emoryi blood

Because there seem to be more and more interesting variations on pure corn out there as opposed to solely looking at corn/emoryi intergrades?

As for the offspring still having emoryi blood... So what? I'm not looking to sell breeding stock or anything, it's a hobby that may provide some friends/family/people in this area with pets, and nothing more than that.

-P
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1.0.0 Normal corn snake (Frito)
1.0.0 Creamsicle corn (Tang)
0.1.0 Ghost corn (Raynham)
1.1.0 Bay of LA rosy boas (Rivet and Cali)

If I may, you said you wanted a pure corn to breed. But your is not. So no babies would be "pure". At least as I see it. So why worry about a pure corn to breed?

If no amel gene in what you buy, and if your cream is not het for anything, the outcome will be somewhat normal.

So if anything you should look for something with the amel gene. Or you will get some cross of a rootbeer x normal. I'm pretty sure of that.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.herpzilla.com

>>>>why are you looking for a pure corn to breed to your >>creamsicle?
>>>>the offspring will still have emoryi blood
>>
>>Because there seem to be more and more interesting variations on pure corn out there as opposed to solely looking at corn/emoryi intergrades?
>>
>>As for the offspring still having emoryi blood... So what? I'm not looking to sell breeding stock or anything, it's a hobby that may provide some friends/family/people in this area with pets, and nothing more than that.
>>
>>-P
>>-----

you can't say "so what" about emoryi blood in the mix.
What if you give a few away and someone you gave one to decides to breed it and sell the babies? Or even give the babies away.
They have the right to know.
Anyone who may get offspring from them, somehwere down the road, has the right to know.
Anything else on your part would be seriously irresponsible.
If you want "interesting varitions on pure corns" as you stated, then get pure corns to breed to the corns you already have and forget about breeding the creamsicle.
No matter what you breed the creamsicle to you will still be dealing with "corn/emoryi intergrades"
If you are starting with a corn/emoryi intergrade (creamsicle) there is no way to get anything other then corn/emoryi intergrades from breeding that creamsicle.
Impossible to get pure corn.
If you take on the responsibility to breed then you take on the responsibility to represent any offspring honestly.
I can't be any clearer then that
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

my arguments, statements, points or whatever you wish to call them are in no form or fashion anti hybrid or anti intergrade.
I breed creamsicles, stripe creams, motley creams and cinnamons and will be producing rootbeers when I introduce more emoryi blood into my cinnamon lines.
Nothing against these mixes.
I am just strongly against anyone representing their snakes as anything other then what they are.
And I hate to say it but "so what" really makes me nervous.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

>And I hate to say it but "so what" really makes me nervous.

Ah! I understand now. When I said "So what?", it's because I believed you were saying that intergrades were inferior or the work of the devil or some such

That's the sentiment I (thought I) was responding to. It would have been clearer if I said "So what? Intergrades make good pets the same as anything else, right?" Sorry for the confusion!

-P
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1.0.0 Normal corn snake (Frito)
1.0.0 Creamsicle corn (Tang)
0.1.0 Ghost corn (Raynham)
1.1.0 Bay of LA rosy boas (Rivet and Cali)

>>>And I hate to say it but "so what" really makes me nervous.
>>
>>Ah! I understand now. When I said "So what?", it's because I believed you were saying that intergrades were inferior or the work of the devil or some such
>>
>>That's the sentiment I (thought I) was responding to. It would have been clearer if I said "So what? Intergrades make good pets the same as anything else, right?" Sorry for the confusion!
>>

Ok, now we are getting somewhere.
I really like my creams and other emoryi/corn mixes.
They do make excellent pets.
And they make some beautiful snakes.
Just make sure to tell anyone and everyone what is in the mix if you breed the cream.

a few emoryi/corn variations
cinnamon.......motley cream.......... stripe cream

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

Jimmy...that striped cream is AWESOME!

Here's my favorite cream variant, the Aztec Orange & White creams...

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Heinrich
mike@amazontreeboa.org
www.boakingdom.com

>>Jimmy...that striped cream is AWESOME!
>>
>>Here's my favorite cream variant, the Aztec Orange & White creams...
>>
>

Mike,
Beautiful!!!!!!!!!
Love those aztec creams!!!
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

a BIG WOW.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.herpzilla.com

Holy Cow Jimmy!

Those are some SUPER Creams!

Y'all are makin' me wan'a jump back into the Dairy Bidniz again!

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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

I totally agree on telling people what they're getting, and I don't recall ever saying anything to the contrary. As I said, I asked about what interesting "pure" corn morphs there were because there don't seem to be many intergrades out there, so I was looking for information on alternatives.

As for just buying a new pair of "pure" morphs: the creamsicle's what I have. I like him. I have room for one more adult, but not two. So, I'll try to find something that'll go well with what I have.

My apologies that this thread has seemingly turned into hybrid-wars instead of the simple genetics thing I thought I was starting. Thanks a lot for all those who replied on the actual question, though!

-P
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1.0.0 Normal corn snake (Frito)
1.0.0 Creamsicle corn (Tang)
0.1.0 Ghost corn (Raynham)
1.1.0 Bay of LA rosy boas (Rivet and Cali)

I love creamsicles. I think another creamsicle, or het, would be the best match, but you could mate him with a corn or Great Plains rat too, depending on if you want their babies to be more corn or more GPR. A lot of my pairings are crosses bt. different subspecies of guttatus. I believe it's all the same species and they breed together pretty easily. If you do breed your creamsicle to a "normal" corn or GPR, your babies will be het for amelanistic. If you breed him to another creamsicle your babies will all be creamsicles, or amelanistic.

Good luck with them.

TC