Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just when I thought my bogy female was done she layed another slug sunday night then another this morning.That makes 9 slugs so far and it appears that she has one more in her.
It just bums me out thinking about the little bogys I'm not going to see this year.I guess I will have to change the way I did things this year and look farward to next year.

Try keeping the male in A/C around 78-82F (during the day) after brumation without any supplemental heat WHATSOEVER. No heat pads or tape...nothin'.
In the wild, subocs hardly ever are in really hot conditions. They shun the sun, will only come out at night (or rarely at dusk). The Chihuahuan desert is cooler and more humid at night than it is during the day.

And during the day, subocs sleep underground in the rock labyrinths and bat caves beneath the desert floor, where it is cooler and more humid than above ground.
If you've ever been in a cavern in the desert, then you'll understand what I am talking about.
So it is quite understandable that this species might be more succeptible to sperm being killed by heat than many other species.
Keep the ambient air dry (A/C does this well) and the cage well-ventilated and you won't have many problems.
It also doesn't hurt to keep a cool and slightly damp retreat with this species (I think it actually helps for several reasons).

Try that and let us know if your breeding efforts succeed next year.

Dusty
Suboc.com

He was actually kept cooler than the temps you cited.More like 72-75 degrees with no supplemental heat at all.In my snake room,on floor level.What are your thoughts on male maturity?I'm thinking maybe he was not mature enough to breed?(produce viable sperm)He is around two years old and only around 30".He eats nothing larger than a hopper.As far as brumation,I put all my snakes in my basement at the end of november and bring them up for a slow warming at the end of february.The temps are a constant 56-60 degrees in the basement.This works well for my corns and rat snakes.What are your thoughts on a longer brumation for the subocs. only?Should I try keeping him in my living quarters in the A/C where the temps are 70-72 degrees .Just picking your brain since I know you produce these guys annually.By the way,hows the snow project doing?

>>He was actually kept cooler than the temps you cited.More like 72-75 degrees with no supplemental heat at all.In my snake room,on floor level.What are your thoughts on male maturity?I'm thinking maybe he was not mature enough to breed?(produce viable sperm)He is around two years old and only around 30".He eats nothing larger than a hopper.As far as brumation,I put all my snakes in my basement at the end of november and bring them up for a slow warming at the end of february.The temps are a constant 56-60 degrees in the basement.This works well for my corns and rat snakes.What are your thoughts on a longer brumation for the subocs. only?Should I try keeping him in my living quarters in the A/C where the temps are 70-72 degrees .Just picking your brain since I know you produce these guys annually.By the way,hows the snow project doing?

If you live in a humid part of the country, then keeping him at 72-75F may not be enough. Get him in an A/C'ed room where the ambient air is drier.
Sexual maturity is best when they reach at least 36 inches for males and at least 40 inches for females. Usually this is three years for males and four for females.
We tried breeding my albino when he was two; he courted my big silver female, but we got no eggs.
Brumation is better with these guys at around 55F, and it is believed that a couple of dips into the mid to upper 40's really helps with subocs as a species. Two months is sufficient.
We're hoping to see a snow around the middle to end of October.

DR

I had success with subocs (sounds like the name of a PBS show!) this year for the first time after taking Dusty's advice about keeping the male cooler post-brumation. I live in humid Central Florida and kept the male in an air conditioned room in the house. My stays about 78 (at the HIGH end, this is rare) during the day and then starts dropping in the evening (via a programmable thermostat) to end up at 70 or 71 at night. He did fine with no supplemental heat. He ate fine and was active. And he bred successfully for the first time to two different females. For brumation, I did what I always do with all my snakes and what has worked for years here in Florida. He was left in the garage with no heat, I covered his clear front cage door, and temps ranged from high 60's (possibly even low 70's on a few rare occasions) down to the low 30's (again, rarely). For the most part it stays around 55-60 degrees but with lots of up and down variation. We definitely get some cold nights and since my garage is concrete block and I have lots of large oak trees in the yard the temp in the garage will stay pretty cool even if it warms up during the day. Good luck next year. He'll be older and bigger and maybe then you'll have success.
Mike

.