Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm finishing up my new indigo cages. I have to finish the lights, and order some glass yet. I put in ballbearing bypass door track, and will be putting glass in that will overlap about 3 inches. My snakes are outgrowing their boxes fast.

These units are 6'x2'x2'. 3/8" baltic birch with clear lacquer finish. I wanted to use thin plyboard to keep them light weight, so all the inside corners have 45 degree reinforcement pieces glued and nailed in. That will also make it easier to clean the cages.

Thanks for the feedback on the feeding methods post. That was all very helpfull, I will ask for a snake hook for christmas.

cheers,
Thad

Thad,

What exact brand of lacquer are you using? Years ago lacquer meant one thing, nowadays all sorts of products are called lacquer without sharing any significant similarities.

Also, have you used this lacquer in other Indigo cages and has it help up? My one concern is that many lacquers have poor water resistance, but again I don't know exactly what you used.

Also, did you buy your baltic birch in 4x8 sheets? In my area you can only get BB in 5x5 sheets which would make it kind of tough to build a 6' cage. Not that it couldn't be done.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

Are you going to add a face frame of some sort to act as a lower substrate dam? I don't recommend using ball-bearing bypass track in a Drymarchon cage with such a low substate dam. I prefer bypass doors but with them being as low as they look like they'll be in the picture I think you'll have a lot of problems with feces and urates getting in the track. It will be even worse if you use Aspen or some other sort of bedding instead of paper.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

Hi Chris,
The Lacquer is Campbell Magnamax Satin pre catalyzed clear tint base. I have not used it on cages before but I like it on table tops. I'm not sure whats in it. My plyboard was 4'x8' sheets. I definately plan on a dam of some kind, but have not decided yet how to solve the problem.

I will post a pic when I finish them.

Thad

Hi Thad,

I'm only an occasionaly lurker on this forum but look forward to seeing more pictures. I hang out over on the caging forum where I would encourage you to post these pictures and maybe even hang out and give some advice. You obviously have some experience to share.

I have never sprayed a pre or post catyalyzed lacquer. I don't have the proper booth. I have discussed their use with quite a few people, however.

The one issue you may have with a cat lacquer is lack of durability on the floor. Cat lacquers have good chemical and abrasion resistance and are decent vapor barriers. As you probably know they are popular because they are so easy to spray and subsequent coats burn in and offgass completely. But before I ramble on, I would assume your floor will need more protection and would recommend covering it with formica, a scrap piece of linoleum, or maybe even some PVC sign board.

There might also be an issue with the first few inches of the cage walls. Especially for a Drymarchon.

What brand of ball-bearing track are you going to use? I need some for my next project.

Thanks.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

thanks for the comments, have you heard of anyone using epoxy paint in a reptile enclosure? Maybe a layer or two of that might work, even up the walls a few inches. I was looking into Sweetwater clear epoxy paint. Otherwise, I am still brainstorming ideas.

I got my track from McMaster Carr http://www.mcmaster.com/
look on page 2753 top right corner. Its all steel construction.

Thad

I have used both water and solvent based 2k epoxies in cages. I typically consider the solvent epoxies (like the sweetwater product) to be a bit overkill in anything less than a cage that practically needs to hold water. However, some people like the peace of mind of having a "lifetime" finish and in those cases the epoxies are a good choice.

Here is a cage that I sealed with Envirotex Lite, one of the many bar top epoxies. They are solvent free and it's a pourable finish, meaning no brushes to clean, no sprayers, etc. and it self levels. But it also needs to be applied very thick which makes it expensive despite having the same cost per gallon as other epoxies. On the other hand, it does store well and can be bought in small quantities if necessary.

I'd be happy to discuss other options with you. Two things I have not tried are the plywoods that come finished with UV cure epoxy (although it's too late for you to try that now) and the two-part waterborne floor finishes that were developed in Europe and now available in the states.

Here's that cage.

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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

I think I might use epoxy, but not set on it yet. What about the glass? My doors will be 36" x 22" x 1/4", a friend told me I should consider tempered glass due to the large size and unbraced on two sides. I have the same lock system that you have in your pic.

Thad

Do you have some sort of interal framework? I think you mentioned that but I can't really see what it is in your picture. I have some ideas but an interal frame might rule some of them out.

I would not use an epoxy to coat the interior walls of your cage if you want to show off the natural veneer of the baltic birch plywood. Most clear epoxies are really not a cabinet quality finish.

The bartop epoxies are not bad. If you've ever eating at an Outback Steakhouse (or many other national chains for that matter) you've seen the bartop epoxies on their tables. They have a bit of a plastic look but don't look too bad on wood. The clear solvent based epoxies can yellow a bit and also get a slightly distorted look when they shrink or flex, something you'll likely see with a 3/8" carcass.

Now, regarding glass. I assume the track your are using clamps onto the glass panels somehow? In that case tempered will work fine. I think laminated safety glass is a better choice but if the track you have isolates the edges of your glass then tempered should be okay.

Personally I think that if you make the floor and the first few inches of the cage walls more durable you'll be "good enough". The catalyed lacquer should be okay for the walls and is easy to reapply down the road if you have problems.

How you deal with the floor really depends on the design of your cage.

For the type of tracks where the glass edge slides right on a plastic or metal surface I definately think laminated safety glass is the way to go.

I'll take another look at the link your provided for your track and see if I can tell.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

Either tempered or safety glass should work.

This picture gives you a better idea of what the bartop epoxy looks like on wood.

I built this cage for a friend and he says it still looks like glass after all these years.

The Lacquer is Campbell Magnamax Satin pre catalyzed clear tint base.

Hi Thad,

I've recently been doing some more research on clear coats and have some information about pre-catalyzed lacquers. Evidently they have been recently banned in Europe (along with conversion varnishes and post-catalyzed lacquers) due to extended periods of formaldehyde off gassing.

I have been searching woodworking forums and even diehard pre-cat users here in the states admit that the drawers they finish with it still smell months later. And this is the biggest concern - the use of these materials on the inside of cabinets and drawers or other enclosed areas. Obviously your Indigo cages are enclosed so I thought I should let you know of this.

Personally I don't think this means you have to throw away your cages or turn them into book cases, but you might consider letting them have an extended cure time and later recoating them with something less toxic and that is compatible with your finish.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

nice looking cages! chris is right though about the low front 'catch-all' thing. that'll become a drag after a while but you still have time to adjust that. i put a 3'' L shaped aluminum curb all the way around this 8 footer to keep le' stuff in and it works well & is easy to clean. good luck w/ the rest of the project!

Dan

The cooler with the hole in the top - is that a nest box?

John D
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

john, yeah that's an old nest box that just happened to be laying there when that pic was snapped for some reason. probably quite near 100 hatchling unicolors started their little lives in that box....& the resulting workload was so great that i have not bred my drymarchon in 3 years. :>/ however, i have since 'recovered' and just this week introduced 2 magnificent unicolors, my own 03 female shown here many times & an unrelated equally gorgeous male. it was not love at 1rst sight initially but today i noticed they were both packed into the same hide & that's a start. we shall see.........

Dan -

May the Great Cribo in the Sky grant the happy couple blessed fortune!

John D
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"