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...he is now just as bad as he was the day he "died." He is not accepting any food - just spits out what ever I give him, He is still falling forward with every other step, and the biggest change is that he RARELY opens his eyes. I can't even get a poop out of him for a fecal. So folks, I am preparing myself for the worst. I may stay off the forum for awhile as I am finding it all to be too depressingg for me at this point. If anyone has any NEW ideas (not the ones we have gone over and over) you can email me vis KS.

My latest treatments have been bathing him in pedialyte out in the sun. I put him, in his little bath, in the sun for about three minutes and then to the shade. It is very warm and very humid here right now so I figured this combination might be useful. I can't even get him to drink so I am afraid he is getting dehydrated. So that's the scoop.

a very sad and almost defeated,
lele

So sorry Lele,

It sounds like your care gave him a short boost, but some major undiagnosed internal problem is getting the upper hand. I have one small idea, but it may not help. If you bathe him in Pedialyte there is a possibility that the sugars and salts in the solution will build up in his skin and cause some problems...their skin is not super porus, but coating it with stuff may not help. I think I'd use plain water instead.

That is a good point and I didn't know how much would really be absorbed. I will go back to using distllied water for bathing and just try the pedialyte internally - which I can never seem to do. If I try to "force" some fluid (other than the neo-cal which I just place ON his tongue) would I be better off trying to get it way back in his throat? I am pretty sure I asked thisa before, so forgive me but I don't recall an answer (and of course so afraid to try in light of Kaiya's demise). I am using a very narrow catheter tube attached to an insulin syringe.

thanks again,
lele

>>So sorry Lele,
>>
>>It sounds like your care gave him a short boost, but some major undiagnosed internal problem is getting the upper hand. I have one small idea, but it may not help. If you bathe him in Pedialyte there is a possibility that the sugars and salts in the solution will build up in his skin and cause some problems...their skin is not super porus, but coating it with stuff may not help. I think I'd use plain water instead.

this is the site that gave me the idea of soaking him in it:
Link

oh no lele! we were just getting to the point were barts recovery was certian, don't give up hope yet, even though i'm sure you haven't. Good luck!

>>...he is now just as bad as he was the day he "died." He is not accepting any food - just spits out what ever I give him, He is still falling forward with every other step, and the biggest change is that he RARELY opens his eyes. I can't even get a poop out of him for a fecal. So folks, I am preparing myself for the worst. I may stay off the forum for awhile as I am finding it all to be too depressingg for me at this point. If anyone has any NEW ideas (not the ones we have gone over and over) you can email me vis KS.
>>
>>My latest treatments have been bathing him in pedialyte out in the sun. I put him, in his little bath, in the sun for about three minutes and then to the shade. It is very warm and very humid here right now so I figured this combination might be useful. I can't even get him to drink so I am afraid he is getting dehydrated. So that's the scoop.
>>
>>a very sad and almost defeated,
>>lele
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-Jamie Whitehouse
-corn_snake_123@msn.com
-formally known as corn_snake_123

Lele, I am so sorry to hear this...this only discourages me further. If you can't keep them alive, then I for certain feel that I can not. I am totally baffled as to what has been going on with your "kids". Since all that has happened to you, I am fairly certain that I will not be getting any more of these precious little chams. I knew cham keeping was difficult, but no matter how hard you try or how devoted you are, things just seem to keep happening...and that, for me, is just too discouraging. We get so attached to these critters, that seeing them suffering or dying is just too hard.

Good luck with Bart...don't give up on him yet (I know you won't!). My heart goes out to you.
Kristen

And you are a student of nature.

not quite sure how you meant this...?

>>And you are a student of nature.

omg lele, I guess that did sound weird, lol. I somehow got some of it deleted. Nature has alot to teach us, or make us remimber as the case may be, and death is just part of that. Nature is also a cruel teacher and it is sometimes hard to be her student, as you are. I don't know, I am just a little POed at some people for not being more helpful to us here, especially people who sell the cute little things. I think I am in love with breve's, they look like little puppets, just so cute and tiny. I want some badly but want desperately to figure out what is going on with the deaths. And people just tell me things like they are just delicate and the females are not made as strong as the males etc etc. Nature is a cruel teacher and usually animals arent just made badly, if they are they dont survive and become extinct. I am sure it is something which can be addressed and fixed so they can be raised and flourish in captivity by anyone willing to give them what they need, I could go on and on but its already too long, lol. I am sorry you have had such a hard time of it and I really do not believe it was from you being a bad keeper, it is something else going on. I just wish Vets weren't so darn expensive.

Thanks - that cleared it up As I think you know I rear a lot of Lepidoptera and other insects and own a tarantula. I have returned to school to get my degree in Nature Literacy and Education. So yes, I am VERY much a student of nature in every sense as well as being a hard-core Darwinian gal! When most folks are reading the latest Harry Potter or other best seller I am reading books on evolutionary biology, ecology, insects and other subjects in the Life Sciences - this is my non-school reading! Ha-ha!

So the whole survival of the fittest thing is obvious in my daily life. For instance of my 54 cecropia eggs that hatched I have 38 still alive and over half of my luna's died. Hopefully these will al go on to spin and eclose next summer as adults. In some cases, I know what happened but in the case of my lunas, I am always stumped. But b/c I have so many and I don’t name them the loss is sad but not devastating and in the wild about that same amount again would become bird or bat food!

I thought I was doing everything right and it is so hard to simply not know. Vets can be frustrating and very expensive. Mine has still not called me back!

Anyway, I am rambling….

lele

>>omg lele, I guess that did sound weird, lol. I somehow got some of it deleted. Nature has alot to teach us, or make us remimber as the case may be, and death is just part of that. Nature is also a cruel teacher and it is sometimes hard to be her student, as you are. I don't know, I am just a little POed at some people for not being more helpful to us here, especially people who sell the cute little things. I think I am in love with breve's, they look like little puppets, just so cute and tiny. I want some badly but want desperately to figure out what is going on with the deaths. And people just tell me things like they are just delicate and the females are not made as strong as the males etc etc. Nature is a cruel teacher and usually animals arent just made badly, if they are they dont survive and become extinct. I am sure it is something which can be addressed and fixed so they can be raised and flourish in captivity by anyone willing to give them what they need, I could go on and on but its already too long, lol. I am sorry you have had such a hard time of it and I really do not believe it was from you being a bad keeper, it is something else going on. I just wish Vets weren't so darn expensive.

Don't give up hope yet Lele. I am going to look through every book of mine, every webpage on chameleon to see if I can find out what is wrong with your good friend.
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Ethan

I don't think it is has anything to do with the pedialyte. This is not a diagnoses or anything, it is a guess. To me it sounds like a Vitamin A deficiency. The eyes closed thing is where there is yellow mucosa coming through the poures of the chameleon (which you cannot see) and is burning the chameleons eye and when the chameleon is not eating this is another sign of Vitamin A deficiency. I am still looking for you Lele and hopefully I will find out.
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Ethan