Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've read that I need to take a liver sample if i need to look for signs of IBD in my burmese. But I have two problems, 1.My vet is going to help me with the procedure, but he knows nothing about snakes. (neither does any1 near me) so we need to do it solely from internet and book anatomy diagrams. I read that I need a liver sample to send to the lab if i want them to check for ibd, but i don't know how to take a liver sample! help!!! and 2. I've also read that there isn't any tests for IBD, but I know there is, can any1 suggest a lab I could send my samples to? Any information on diagnosing IBD without any herp vets around would be greatly appriaciated

If your vet went to vet school and took some anatomy, he/she shouldn't have any trouble locating the liver on a snake.

It is large and elongate, but it looks like liver tissue and is pretty conspicuous if you make the incision somewhere about mid body or slightly anterior to that.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

I'm in vet school.... and you would be lucky to find any grad who could locate a snake liver. there is very little attention given to exotics in vet school, and you only get more if you take special rotations (which many students do not because they don't want/expect to see exotics) perhaps a radiograph would be helpful to specifically locate the liver?
sue

The fact that you inquired about a liver biopsy implies that you have a very sick snake. Having had a very sick snake, and seen inside a few snakes, I am going to share my experience. I am not a veterinarian. You must make your own decisions.

Where is the Liver?
The liver is located behind the heart. It is elongate and about 15% to 20% as long as the snake itself. It fills a good part of the body cavity when there is no food in the snake. It looks like what it is - liver.

Where is the Heart?
You should be able to externally locate the heart visually by looking at the ventral scales about 1/4 of the way down the snakes belly. At the right angle, light reflecting off of the ventrals will allow you to see the heart beating. It helps to have the snake in a vertical position, head down.

About Liver Biopsy
To biopsy the liver, one must not hit any major blood vessels, so stay as far away from the heart as possible. An incision, rather than simply inserting a syringe, might allow visual confirmation. It might be safer to get the biopsy from the distal end of the liver, as there it should be less likely to hit any blood vessels.

Anesthesia
While minor surgery may be well tolerated by some snakes, they do feel pain. Having a piece of liver cut out will hurt. Most vets would recommend anesthesia to reduce shock and trauma. One doesn't want the snake to suddenly decide its time to make trouble while there's a scalpel inside him. Nevertheless, anesthesia poses risks of its own. A certain percentage of anesthetized snakes have complications and do not survive. Its a calculated risk.

Is It Worth It?
Your snakes life is in your hands. Like it or not, you must weigh the risks and benefits. A biopsy may enable you to save your snakes life, or make a better informed decision about euthanasia, accomplish nothing, or kill him outright. At some point you may decide to let nature take its course, as long as the snake is not suffering.

You have a tough row to hoe. I wish you the best of luck.

Sincerely,

John DeMelas
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

>>The fact that you inquired about a liver biopsy implies that you have a very sick snake. Having had a very sick snake, and seen inside a few snakes, I am going to share my experience. I am not a veterinarian. You must make your own decisions.
>>
>>Where is the Liver?
>>The liver is located behind the heart. It is elongate and about 15% to 20% as long as the snake itself. It fills a good part of the body cavity when there is no food in the snake. It looks like what it is - liver.
>>
>>Where is the Heart?
>>You should be able to externally locate the heart visually by looking at the ventral scales about 1/4 of the way down the snakes belly. At the right angle, light reflecting off of the ventrals will allow you to see the heart beating. It helps to have the snake in a vertical position, head down.
>>
>>About Liver Biopsy
>>To biopsy the liver, one must not hit any major blood vessels, so stay as far away from the heart as possible. An incision, rather than simply inserting a syringe, might allow visual confirmation. It might be safer to get the biopsy from the distal end of the liver, as there it should be less likely to hit any blood vessels.
>>
>>Anesthesia
>>While minor surgery may be well tolerated by some snakes, they do feel pain. Having a piece of liver cut out will hurt. Most vets would recommend anesthesia to reduce shock and trauma. One doesn't want the snake to suddenly decide its time to make trouble while there's a scalpel inside him. Nevertheless, anesthesia poses risks of its own. A certain percentage of anesthetized snakes have complications and do not survive. Its a calculated risk.
>>
>>Is It Worth It?
>>Your snakes life is in your hands. Like it or not, you must weigh the risks and benefits. A biopsy may enable you to save your snakes life, or make a better informed decision about euthanasia, accomplish nothing, or kill him outright. At some point you may decide to let nature take its course, as long as the snake is not suffering.
>>
>>You have a tough row to hoe. I wish you the best of luck.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>
>>John DeMelas
>>-----
>>I am so not lesdysxic!
>>
>>0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
>>1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
>>0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
>>0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

LOL

Never even occurred to me the snake might be deceased!

Dead snakes make much better patients - never need anesthesia.

JPD
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

he's not dead, but my vet was able to help me thanks for everything! we only did a syringe sample