Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Any opinions would be nice. And no, those are not scars on the normal.

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Thanks,
Jamie and Kayce
cantilxcotton@yahoo.com

0.1 Chocolate Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 High Yellow Leopard Gecko-(Oats)
1.0 High Yellow Leopard Gecko-(Wyatt)
0.1 Mack Snow Leopard Gecko-(Potion)
0.1 Ghost Leopard Gecko-(Coffin)
0.0.1 Pastel Leopard Gecko-(Lemon)
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko-(Kist)
0.1 Bell Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 High Yellow Leopard Gecko
1.0 Harlequin Dalmation Crested Gecko-(Dali)
1.0 Southern Painted Turtle-(Bat)
0.1 Eastern Cottonmouth-(Fat @$$)
0.2 House Cats-(Cali & Lilly)
0.1 Ausie Shepard-(Jackie)
1.0 Bully Boxer-(River)

There would be a good market for some piebald black rats.That pic caught my interest the last time you posted.I pray you can prove it out.All your rats are fine looking.
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If lead paint is so deadly why do they make it so delicious?

There are several genetic disorders that cause those kind of unpigmented patches in humans, the most common being vitilago. I think what you are seeing is an example of something like that.

I don't regard those few white blotches as piebaldism. Piebald animals (horses, ball pythons) have a large part of their bodies without pigment, not just a small patch here or there.

I think calling these animals with this type of disorder piebald just started when people saw that piebald ball pythons were worth big bucks.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

chris would be genetically correct at this point in the project.....but i reckon you could coin the phenotype what you wish.....which would mean that snake with the white areas would not be a "normal"...but a phenotype of whatever this trait is described as......maybe as you isolate the gene or genes (might be multiple alleles at work here)the whites areas may increase in size......then you got a piebald????

I respectfully disagree. Piebaldism isn't a matter of being white enough. I think piebaldism is controlled by a totally different mechanism where large parts of the developing embryo fail to produce pigments.

The splotchy type white patterns seen here often don't show up until adulthood, much like vitilago in humans. Having more of these white splotches wouldn't be the same.

Furthermore, I doubt these "vitilago" type disorders are quantitatively inherited. I doubt you could get more white splotches on individual offspring by breeding two snakes with a few splotches. I suspect the trait just produces a few white splotches.

There was a bairdi a few years ago being touted as piebald which had a similar condition. Haven't seen any big white patched bairdi yet, have we?

It will be interesting to see, however.

What about "snowflake" as morph name. They look like they have a few patches of snow on them. And it is a kinder, gentler name than piebald anyway.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

is piedbald a gene covering "coat' type???....i seem to remember genetic problems dealing with dalmation coat type inheritance...oops that 's incomplete dominance......i seem to remember problems dealing with this trait and it involved a gene that blocked coat color in areas.....epistatic gene????...its been a long time!!!!

I actually was unfamiliar with the mammalian research into piebaldism and white patterns in coats. Seems complex.

I think this might be analogous (but not homologous) to the piebaldism seen in ball pythons.

I still think these splotchiness of ratsnakes is a different gene.
piebald inheritance in dogs link

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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

i was hoping it might be as simple as multiple gnes....the more genes for that "snowflake' type ....the larger the cololess or white area....but its probably more complicated....yo...you seem pretty educated...nice to meetcha

I would have to say that you are wrong on the large "pied" areas, if that were the case, then this wouldn't be a "pied". Also, I am not saying that this Ratsnake is a Pied, just simply arguing the possiblity.

Also, not my pic, Mr. Ralph Davis's pic.

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Thanks,
Jamie and Kayce
cantilxcotton@yahoo.com

0.1 Chocolate Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 High Yellow Leopard Gecko-(Oats)
1.0 High Yellow Leopard Gecko-(Wyatt)
0.1 Mack Snow Leopard Gecko-(Potion)
0.1 Ghost Leopard Gecko-(Coffin)
0.0.1 Pastel Leopard Gecko-(Lemon)
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko-(Kist)
0.1 Bell Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 High Yellow Leopard Gecko
1.0 Harlequin Dalmation Crested Gecko-(Dali)
1.0 Southern Painted Turtle-(Bat)
0.1 Eastern Cottonmouth-(Fat @$$)
0.2 House Cats-(Cali & Lilly)
0.1 Ausie Shepard-(Jackie)
1.0 Bully Boxer-(River)

the only way to find an answer is to produce offspring....

I have a blood python with similar white splotching. I am attempting to breed her with a pretty male and will then cross her back with a male offspring.

I checked with Trooper Walsh and Tracy Barker - both agreed it is a genetic trait but that is as far as they would go; no real thought as to its ability to increase in size or reproduce the pattern.

I am interested if you are able to produce consistent splotchiness on the offspring of your rat snake.

Dennis
NVRR

A little late.....
Traveling .....

I'm sorry, They look like scars to me.....

Those white marks are consistent with deep scars after a tangle with a mowing machine or burn from a cage light.
This would have happened more than a year ago.

Is this possible (i.e. wild caught?)
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Regards, Bill McGighan