Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have edited this post to comply with the forum rules and am re-posting it in its entirety.

I have given this a lot of consideration and feel that although it is scary to come forward with this, it is something that needs to be done, so others might be able to avoid the heartbreak I have been through the past weeks. I also think this is a step toward controlling the spread of a virus that can be deadly within a short time in bearded dragons. I purchased my breeding stock in 2004 and spent a lot of time and effort to find big healthy animals. I had a great first season with my orange line and this does not affect them at all. I bred my orange dragons again this season. In addition, I bred my yellow male Clyde with my yellow female Maggie. The first clutch hatched out and everything seemed fine. Later, I began to notice that the yellow babies were very aggressive and I had several nips on tails and feet. They were kept 5 to a bin and fed very well. We had never had problems with this routine before.

At about 2 weeks old I lost one of the babies in the second yellow clutch. I had a lot of family in from out of town and thought maybe I had not been hydrating them enough due to my busy schedule. Well, I had two more die and then I had an orange baby from the second clutch die. I IMMEDIATELY closed down my colony and did not sell any more dragons. I started to think they may have been exposed to something from their food. I went to the vet and he mentioned adenovirus. I felt certain that was not the cause. All of my adults were healthy and well over 500 grams. I had gotten them all from reputable breeders and did not even entertain the thought. I sent in a fecal to be viewed under the electron microscope. In addition, one of the sick babies died and I sent it in for a necropsy. When I received the results I felt as though the wind had been knocked out of me. They tested positive for adenovirus.

I thought it came from Maggie, my yellow female, because the first clutch of orange babies from another mother was fine and it started with the yellow second clutch. I talked with Cheri Smith of ReptileRooms.com and got in touch with Dr. Dan Wentz per her suggestion. He is considered by many as the leading authority on this virus in bearded dragons. He referred me to the University of IL lab to get the appropriate testing for my breeders. I chose to use this lab because they follow a protocol he developed and it is not available elsewhere yet and is considered cutting edge. It uses a fixative to stop the virus from breaking down immediately so it can be detected. Other methods have proved to be less accurate. I have proof that this is the case. I had the fecals run with a local lab here. They do not use a fixative and they said they did not see the virus in any of the samples I submitted. I had too much riding on the results, so I had extensive tests done through the University. All of my breeders came back clear of any types of virus (it detects others, besides adenovirus) except for Clyde and he was positive, so the carrier. He is my yellow male that I purchased in October of 2004 as a baby. His levels were very low, but they were detected, so he can infect others. My vet feels that this is something he has most likely had since he was a hatchling. He has not been exposed to other dragons, except for the two females he mated with this season, and as I said earlier, they have tested clear. It is amazing that he did not infect Maggie or Zelda. It is most likely due to him shedding such low levels of the virus and that adults tend to not be as susceptible to it as hatchlings, which have almost no immune system. Both these girls have always been very healthy and have good immune systems.

I have spent over $1500 in testing in the past month and vet bills to find that all of my orange and yellow babies were infected through handling and equipment. I have euthanized about 140 babies and froze 71 eggs that had been developing. In addition, I have sent Clyde and 22 babies to Dr. Wentz in an effort to help with further studies and to hopefully help future dragons.

I have handled this as responsibly as I know how. It has been heartbreaking to have to put so many beautiful seemingly healthy babies down. I know it was the right thing to do. It would be a disservice and injustice to not bring this public. I am aware that other individuals and breeders are also dealing with the same viral issues. I believe the bearded dragon community needs to know this is happening. They also need to know they have the option of testing if there is any doubt or they have a dragon that may have been exposed. Even if exposure was years ago they may still be harboring it. Once a dragon incubates the virus they will be carriers for life, which is why infected dragons can not be sold or around any others. I am hoping to alert people who may have purchased dragons around the same time I did, that their dragons may have been exposed and be infected. This may help someone else avoid what I have been through. This should serve as a wake up call to all breeders. If this happened to me, it could happen to you. It is so easy to have your animals tested. You can be assured that any dragon I breed from this day forth will be tested and adenovirus free. The contact information for testing is as follows:

Lou Ann Miller, MT(ASCP)
Service Supervisor
Center for Microscopic Imaging
College of Veterinary Medicine
Rm 1204 VMBSB
2001 S Lincoln Ave
Urbana, IL 61802

Ph#: 217-244-1567
Website: http://treefrog.cvm.uiuc.edu
Email: lamiller@uiuc.edu

I appreciate you all taking the time to read this. I am going to post it on a few of the forums so you may see it more than once. Fear has produced a code of silence that has only enabled this virus to spread that much quicker. I took a risk to let you all know about this, but I could not sit by and knowingly let this possibly happen to others. You can be certain any dragons purchased from me will be healthy and adenovirus free, as mine have all been tested now and are clear. Please feel free to contact me with any questions.

I am not posting this to try and harm or dissuade anyone from purchasing dragons from any particular breeders. I am trying to raise awareness of the seriousness of this virus and to prevent it spreading further.

Wendy Thomas
Neverland Dragons

-----
Wendy
www.neverlanddragons.com

____

Edited on September 15, 2006 at 06:26:17 by phwyvern.

thanks for the info. im sorry this has happened to you. i too have had problems with a male of mine who has tested positive for viral menengitus. offspring from his also severely nipped eachother, more than the usual tail nips, just like you described. i posted below in this forum about it and cheri S also responded to me. i took my male in, plus others that were in contact with him, and none but my male are infected.
-----
Beach Beardies

3.4.11 bearded dragons
1.0.0 Turquoise x Sunburst Veiled Chameleon
1.1.0 Sugar Gliders
0.1.0 Miss Queen Athena (Cat)

i know it is off topic, but you are brave having 2 sugar gliders, how is their rooms soundproofing?
a friend of mine had one, and it was always loud

First I would like to say thanks to Wendy for risking her reputation because she truely cares so much about her dragons and the bearded dragon community. I have only known her for a short time, but found that she has more character and integity than you could ask for in a person. We should be glad that someone has come forward and "broke the ice" with this subject. I will gladly do business with her in the future and support her in any way that I can. Gary K. Conlon

Hi Wendy, I think letting people know about this is very important and I commend you for doing so I have worked for Vets for nearly 20 years and also in Emergency Rooms in several Hospitals and over the years I did alot of research on different viruses/ diseases ect that plague Warm Blooded(animals and humans) and Reptiles and some of us know, there has been a problem with adenovirus in bearded dragons over the past several years. Which hits beardeds particularly hard.
Some of this below is to help everyone know about the virus in general( yes humans can get it too)

Adenovirus enteritis( which means inflammation o the intestines) is a infectious virus of the small bowel caused by a dsDNA virus resulting in a secretory diarrhea.

In humans, it is the second most common cause of virus-induced enteritis. Those at highest risk of infection are:
kids under 2 years of age
immune compromised people
It can be contracted at any time of year. Routes of infection are:
fecal-oral (direct transmission)
respiratory droplets (environmental)( not nearly as common)
The virus can also be passed on from parent to ova.
The incubation period is 8-10 days. Diarrhea is the most common symptoms in humans, with the virus found in stools for 7-14 days. About 50% of human patients have respiratory symptoms before the gastrointestinal symptoms start. In humans, mild fever, vomited and abdominal pain accompany the period of diarrhea, which can last for 10 days or so. During the first 4-5 days, no virus cells are shed.

The strain caused by the cramps and diarrhea can cause one part of the intestine to slide into another (intussusception)( most common in animals), causing further discomfort and digestion problems.Diagnosis is made by subjecting the feces to EM, latex agglutination, or monoclonal antibody based immune electron microscopy (EM) examination.
Treatment is supportive in nature: oral, subcutaneous or intracoelomic fluids.

Adenovirus in Reptiles
From Mader's Reptile Medicine & Surgery:
Adenovirus has been reported in a bearded dragon, Rankin's dragons, and a Savannah monitor. The actual route of transmission was not known, but suspected to be direct (fecal-oral).
The bearded dragon exhibited recurring loss of appetite before dying. The Rankin's died soon after exhibiting limb paresis, loss of appetite, and lethargy. The monitor died suddenly with no prior signs of illness.
The post mortems found no gross abnormalities in the monitor and bearded; in the Rankin's, the lungs were congested and liver swollen and pale. Microscopic exam found multiple spots of necrotic tissue in the livers of all three species. Eosinophilic intranuclear bodies were found in the bearded's liver cells (hepatocytes). Basophilic inclusion bodies were found in the monitor's and Rankin's, and inclusion bodies were also found in the endothelial cells of the monitor. EM exam the viral particles were found in all the animals examined.
Diagnosis is made post mortem.
There is no treatment for the adenovirus; antimicrobials can be given for secondary bacterial infections.
In the following section, under general guidelines for the collection and handling of specimens, Dr. Schumacher goes on to say:
In living reptiles, biopsies of skin, liver, oral mucosa, etc., can be collected and stored in formalin for histologic and electron microscopy exam. For direct viral detection, samples of urine, saliva or vesicular fluid (as from cysts or blisters) can be processed for negative staining EM. If the virus particles are present in sufficient number, these methods will work.
There have been reports of adenovirus in some bearded dragon breeders' collections(as noted). There has also recently been some discussion on the other message boards, email list. The People who own Beardies are concerned that hatchlings who thrash and flail about when put in water for a bath or soak have this virus. Neurological signs (loss of coordination, spasms, tremors, intention tremors, falling down, etc.) are generally not signs of adenovirus infection. The main symptoms are diarrhea, no interest in food, Weight loss, Acting sick( not basking, laying under paper towels shelf liner, a hide, lack of movement and in some respiratory symptoms.

I hope some of this helps others. If you think some of the symptoms ring true a Vet exam is needed and then a blood and fecal test. Unfortunatly we know there is no cure so basically many will be put to sleep.But we need to do this tocull this virus from spreading to others It is sad to not know everything we need to know about this virus and a terrible shame there isn't a cure. God Bless you Wendy for sharing your story and remember it will help many beardies out there by just making everyone aware and to test. Deb
-----
SACRED CREATURES~
http://www.sacredcreatures.com/

Beardies: 9.14.35
Myst- Hypo Red x Yellow Sandfire Female Juvy
Pyro-Red Flaming Tiger x Orange German Giant Male
Kai-German Giant x Orange German Giant Male
Skyla-German Giant x German Giant Pastel Female
Voodoo-Yellow Red Desert Male
Banshee-Orange Sandfire Female
Puff-Citrus x Red Flamming Tiger/Orange Sandfire Male
Cera-Citrus x Sunburst Female
Moon- Snow x Hypo Female
Jewel-Yellow Sandfire x Orange Sandfire- Female
Ace-Sundial Coral x Snow Male
Jace- Yellow sandfire x Orange sandfire Male
Sundra-Sunrise x Red/Gold Sandfire Female
Nitro(Stubbs)-German Giant x GG Pastel- Female
Wicket-Sundial Coral x Snow Male
Sedona-Blood x Red/Orange Sandfire Female
Flurry- Snow Female
Jinx- Snow x Patternless Pastel x Hypo Orange male
Jazz- Snow x Patternless Pastel x Hypo Orange female
Jet- Snow x Patternless Pastel x Hypo Orange male
Joker- Snow x Patternless Pastel x Hypo Orange female

Crested Geckos
1.0 Warrior- Dark Harley Part Pin, Dalmation, Full Fringe
0.1 Suey- Orange Tiger Dalmation
0.0.1 Ra- Rust Flame, Pin striping, Full Fringe

Fat Tail Geckos
4.8 Stripes, Normal, Het Armel, Het Albino ( not named yet)

Leopard Geckos 5.18.54
India- Super Hypo Tang Carrot Tail Baldie Female
Sirius- Tremper Albino Male
Blossom- Patternless Tremper Albino Female(Animal Dreams)
Blaze- Jungle Bandit Female (Bruckman's Reptiles)
Basil-High Yellow Jungle Leo Female(Bruckman's)
Ebony-Dark Phase Normal Female
Snowflake-Line bred snow Female
Twister-HQ Red Stripe Leo Male
Swayze-HQ Red Stripe Bold Jungle Leo Female(Hot Geckos)
Eclipse-HQ Red Stripe Bold Jungle Leo Female(Hot Geckos)
Ayesha-Outcross JMG x HQ Red Stripe Female(Hot Geckos)
Sunspot-High Yellow Leo Female(Bruckman's Reptiles)
Phoenix-Super Hypo Tang Carrot Tail Baldy Male (Hot Geckos)
Cajun-Super Hypo Tang Baldy Leo Female(Hot Geckos)
Calypso-Super Hypo Leo Female
Orion- Hypo Tang Leo Female
Bijou- Hypo Tang Leo Female( Our Breeding)
Arwen-Rainwater( LV)Jungle Albino Leo Male (Hot Geckos)
Aries-Rainwater(LV) Banded Albino Leo Female (Hot Geckos)
Ice-Blizzard Leo Female(Bruckman's Reptiles)
Winter-Blizzard Leo Female(Bruckman's Reptiles
Shiver-Banana Blizzard Leo Male(Bruckman's Reptiles)

Tortoises 1.1
Velvet-Leopard Tortoise 2 years old male
Isis- Blond Leopard Tortoise 16 mos old female

4.3 Ball Pythons
Stripe Male 05
Black Back Female 05
Het Pied Male 05
Axanthic Female 03
Reduced with Blushing Female 03
Chocolate Reduced Male 04
Banded Male 04

Tarantula's
1 Mexican Red Knee "Red"
1 Brazilian Striped Knee "Gremlin"
1 Chilean Rose Hair "Rosey"
1 Guyana Pink Toe "Pinky"
1 Chaco Golden Knee "Goldielocks"
1 Curly Hair "Curlie Q"

Exotic Roaches
Lobsters
Orange Headed
Orange Spotted
Hissers
And Many Furry Pets

you did the right thing.