Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My juvenille sulcatas face has been very dry recently. Especially between his eyes and mouth. He is well hydrated, and is provided with a humid hide. Could the lights be drying out his face? I did go a bit overkill with them, on one side there is a 150watt uva heat bulb, on the other an 80 watt uvb, and on the two sides in between there is a 8.0 reptisun fluor, and on the other side a 2.0 reptisun fluor (for plant growth). Has anyone had similiar issues with dryness in the facial region? I will post pics when I get a chance. Thanks for any advice.
Josh
(the picture posted is before the dry skin issue)

How far are the lights from the tort/substrate? You got 2 fluos that don't generate heat, and essentially 2 heat lamps. I would try turning one fluo off and 1 bulb off and see if there's a change.
maintain your temp by adjusting the height of the heat lamp from the substrate.

The lights range from 8-14'' from the substrate. The closest lights is the 8.0 uvb tube. I know this is a bit close, but no heat is emitted. I have a steady gradient from 75-102 degrees that i measure regularly with an infra red temp gun. I have been keeping the substrate more damp than usual to see if it helps, but it hasnt. I will be rebuilding his enclosure, moving him from a 40 gallon tub to a tort table. He is still only about 65 grams. This is an old pic of the enclose, its been altered a lot, but just so u can get an idea.

You use almost as much electricity on one enclosure as I do to heat and light six!

Keep it simple. You're using high wattage bulbs and keeping them far away when it's much easier and efficient to use low wattage bulbs and keep them close. Trust me, there's probably less chance of harming a reptile that way. My enclosure that I keep my female russians in is heated by a 40 watt sylvania light bulb in a clip lamp, and it's on a dimmer that's turned about half way down. I could literally hold that bulb in my hand all day long without getting burned. it's suspended about 6-7, maybe 8" from the floor of the enclosure. Keep in mind though, this isn't a tortoise table, this is an enclosure, with sides, bottom, top, etc. It works fantasic having it closed up though. The cage holds humidity and heat so well, and the tortoises are thriving. It's going to be tougher to keep temps high in an open-top cage though.

I hate aquariums for that reason though. I have my male russian in an aquarium with a screen top, and even with the screen almost completely covered with foil, it doesn't hold heat, it doesn't hold an humidity, it's a pain in the butt. I have to add water to the soil daily just to keep it from getting dusty.

That might actually be the problem you're struggling with. No matter how much water you dump into your substrate, it's just going to evaporate. How do you expect your tortoise to stay hydrated? In the wild tortoises spend a majority of their time deep in humid burrows, or hiding in moist leaf litter (the tropical species).

So as a start, try adding some more humid hiding spots, which can be as simple as a small container that has a hole cut in the side, filled with moistened substrate. Also try experimenting with different heating options, because currently you're heating the air in the room the tank is in, and any of the heat that happens to come down to the tortoise is just run-off.

I understand most of the information I've given you is contrary to what most people will tell you, and that's the beautiful thing about the internet. You can take it or leave it, and feel free to comment on it. This is just some advice I thought might be helpful.

Keeping temps high is not my problem, the gradient I have is exactly where it needs to be. The hide has a sponge on the inside and is always nice and humid for him. My low wattage lights are close where my one high watt light is about 12-14inches away, this is the lights that gives off the heat.
My tort stays hydrated from his food as they do in the wild. I also soak him every other day for 15 minutes. Im sure dehydration is not the problem. He seems to be thriving, I just need to work out my lighting issue, its drying out his face.
The coconut brick holds moisture pretty well. The top layer appears dry but a half inch deep it is nice and moist. The great thing about a infra red heat gun is that it measures the temp of the surface, not the air. So i can rule that out. Ive spent a lot of time managing my heat gradient. I appreciate your input on the situation. I will work out my problem systematically.

I too have a temp gun. I wasn't saying that your temps are incorrect, just saying that you're wasting a lot of energy to achieve temps that you can get with very low amounts of energy. I get my uromastyx's basking spot to 145 degrees surface temperature with a 45 watt halogen bulb. Getting temps right for a tortoise is a cinch with regular household bulbs. But that's up to you. I just can't see expending a ton of electricity when I have so many cages to heat.

You said: "Im sure dehydration is not the problem. He seems to be thriving, I just need to work out my lighting issue, its drying out his face." which is a pretty clear contradiction. If the tortoise was well-hydrated, you wouldn't be having any issues, however I'm still unsure of what you mean by the tort's head 'drying out'. Could you post a picture? have you completely ruled out shedding as a cause?

As for tortoises getting hydration through vegetables in the wild, that's a very narrow point of view. There's a big difference between becoming hydrated and maitaining hydration. Without a burrow or other humid hiding spot, most tortoises would not last long at all in the wild. You need to do your best to recreate this in captivity. This is especially true with sulcatas , which is a species that is very highly dependent on their large burrows for survival. There are very very few reptiles in captivity that aren't in some point of dehydration. That's why there is such a high instance of liver and kidney problems in captive reptiles. It's also the underlying cause to a whole ton of other problems (parasitic outbreaks, impaction, etc.).

Post a picture so we can better help you.

>>I too have a temp gun. I wasn't saying that your temps are incorrect, just saying that you're wasting a lot of energy to achieve temps that you can get with very low amounts of energy. I get my uromastyx's basking spot to 145 degrees surface temperature with a 45 watt halogen bulb. Getting temps right for a tortoise is a cinch with regular household bulbs. But that's up to you. I just can't see expending a ton of electricity when I have so many cages to heat.
>>
>>You said: "Im sure dehydration is not the problem. He seems to be thriving, I just need to work out my lighting issue, its drying out his face." which is a pretty clear contradiction. If the tortoise was well-hydrated, you wouldn't be having any issues, however I'm still unsure of what you mean by the tort's head 'drying out'. Could you post a picture? have you completely ruled out shedding as a cause?
Have you ever had dry skin before? Would you say that because your skin is dry you are dehydrated? No, I see where you are comin from. As I mentioned I have a nice humid hide with deep underlyin moisture which he digs into when he sleeps at night. In the wild torts rarely drink, especially grassland torts, they acquire their moisture from there food, and the burrows that they dig. I have been studyin animal husbandry and understand that you are just tryin to help me, but you dont have to speak down to me for any reason. I am well aware of the medical problems associated with dehydration, and I do not disagree with you that dehydration is a huge problem with keeping reptiles in captivity. I have been studying veterinary medicine, ive worked in practice for 6 years and am well aware of the requirements for and detriments caused by dehydration. I will post that pic for you soon, i just need to upload it. I do appreciate you time and input, i just dont think its necessary to be condescending.

This is about the animal, not about you. If I gave you information it's because I saw aspects of your husbandry that could be changed in a way to try to help your situation. This is certainly not about being condescending or you or I knowing more than each other about reptiles. It's about trying to find a cause of the problem, and then finding a solution. If you aren't going to take any of my advice, then I am completely cool with that, but don't come back and say 'I do this and this and it works out fine', because you stated that you had a problem and needed a solution.

You asked a question pertaining to captive husbandry, and you got an answer. There was absolutely no malice towards you. Like I said, this isn't about you. It's about the animal.

And as to your question about humans and dry skin, that doesn't make any sense in this situation. A tortoise is not a human, and it's not even similar to a human. It is a reptile with very specialized needs. But if you're going to think of it that way, what do people do when they get dry skin? Usually the first step is applying a moisturizing lotion, which would indicate to me that in most cases it is primarily caused by lack of moisture (houses tend to have extremely low relative humidity). Of course there are various skin diseases humans can have that will cause dry skin, there are far less for reptiles.

Good luck with the tortoise and I hope that you don't find any condescending attitudes in this message, because there was never any malice intended. I don't know who you are, and you don't know who I am, and I'm sure neither of us care either.

I apologize if I got off topic in my posts, I understand that this is about the animal and I originally posted to get some help and advice. Maybe I got the wrong impression from your posts, I do understand it is not about me or you, just my little tort. You most likely do know more than I do about reptiles, experience outweighs asny amount of literature that could be read. I did not mean to imply in any way that human skin/anatomy is at all similiar to reptiles. I was just pointing out a different viewpoint. Yes it was irrelevant to this situation but my point was that dry skin is not always direclty related to dehydration. Once again i apologize for getting off topic, I can readily admit that I am no expert, and I do appreciate your advice.

Heck, I'm having some trouble right now getting a russian to drop some eggs for me. I'm just trying to lend some advice that sounds like it might help. That's all. I've dealt with reptiles for a long time, but it's been a crash course.

I am sorry if my posts didn't sit well, I just wasn't thinking about how they would sound at the time of posting. All I was thinking of was some suggestions for your tortoise.

Exactly what are you feeding the guy?

Ed

>>My juvenille sulcatas face has been very dry recently. Especially between his eyes and mouth. He is well hydrated, and is provided with a humid hide. Could the lights be drying out his face? I did go a bit overkill with them, on one side there is a 150watt uva heat bulb, on the other an 80 watt uvb, and on the two sides in between there is a 8.0 reptisun fluor, and on the other side a 2.0 reptisun fluor (for plant growth). Has anyone had similiar issues with dryness in the facial region? I will post pics when I get a chance. Thanks for any advice.
>> Josh
>>(the picture posted is before the dry skin issue)
>>
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

freshly cut grass and weed mixture that I grow mixed with 25% dark leafy green (a mix of kale, collard, mustard, dandelion) and 5% vegetables ( usually carrot, yellow squash, or prickly pear cactus). I also occasionally feed him grape leaves, clover, whatever variety I have been getting from reptileeasts.com. I provide finely chopped hay mix of bermuda, timothy, and orchard in a corner of his enclosure for bedding and/or a snack between meals.