Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I guess the people on this forum do not like those who catch snakes? Is that right? I grew up catching snakes and that is what got me in this hobby...I guess I will forever love to catch them in the wild...All I wanted to know was some info on Gray Rats...I have never even seen one before...
While out, I thought I caught 2 baby juvi water snakes...I let them go otherwise I would have taken a pic and asked about them...
They were Gray and black and look like the baby black rats I see posted here, but having never seen a gray rat I wondered if that's what they were...
I only catch and release and only until recently have thought about getting a gray rat and keeping as a pet...
I never knew they were in NY state...so I wonder if they are known to be here. Oh well any help anyone wants to offer would be great...but I am thinking those that would answer fear the others. Thanks anyway. Andy
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In NY, you have black ratsnakes, not grey ratsnakes. There's a lot of info about them on the internet. Any specific info you're looking for?

Shane
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Lifelist

I just wanted to see some gray rat juvis...good pics anyway to show the color...I have looked around a bunch and have not found any...a few in the pic forum but they were not very good daylight pics so it was hard to see. I was talking to someone who I just met...he knows way more than me...about all these types of snakes...he has caught gray rats in NY state, and I believe him...anyway in 2 weeks he is going to show me where to find them...I can't wait! But wanted any info ...especially if they are protected...I would not want to break the law. Thanks Andy
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Hi Andy. Nice to see you over here (and not in the Boa Forum). I don't believe anyone over here has anything against field herping and/or keeping the occasional specimen and quite a few of us have rescues and wild-caughts that are now pets and/or breeders. But, to clarify, there are no grey rats in NY state, only black rats. The juvies look very similar, but as they mature, black rats develop their adult coloration of a solid, jet-black animal with very little or no pattern. Greys on the other hand, keep their juvenile pattern and color into adulthood. Not sure about laws up in NY, but I know I used to catch the occasional black rat when I was a kid growing up in northern NJ. Good luck with the herping!

Billy

>>I just wanted to see some gray rat juvis...good pics anyway to show the color...I have looked around a bunch and have not found any...a few in the pic forum but they were not very good daylight pics so it was hard to see. I was talking to someone who I just met...he knows way more than me...about all these types of snakes...he has caught gray rats in NY state, and I believe him...anyway in 2 weeks he is going to show me where to find them...I can't wait! But wanted any info ...especially if they are protected...I would not want to break the law. Thanks Andy
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I am glad for the responses!!! I love feild herping and I don't have a wild caught animal anywhere...I usually always catch and release....I tried to keep a couple milk snakes I caught but could not get them to eat..so I let them go....
I am going to go to some new areas and I am going after these Rats...I guess maybe they are Black Rats...but I will post pics and you can let me know. Thanks for the info!!! Andy
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Andy, I think catching and keeping wild snakes is fine, and I also grew up catching all kinds of local herps and releasing them after keeping them a while. This was many years ago before there was much information that this is not good for the animals in question,(or at least that I was aware of). They may become infected with various captive diseases or not readjust well, etc. However, if you are going to catch and keep an animal permanently, there is no problem unless it is endangered, protected, or it's wild status is otherwise compromised. Also, some states have laws regarding collecting and keeping reptiles, even non-endangered ones. In Texas, where I live , you need a hunting license and a non-game permit to collect snakes, and now you also need a dealer's non game permit to legally sell animals to someone who does not have a permit... I do not condone over collecting, and I am speaking of low numbers. I have a few wc snakes of my own from a certain locality, as a breeding project. Also, keep in mind that any wc snake may be heavily parasitized and should at least have its feces checked by a vet, and possibly medicated, in order for it to thrive in captivity. My 2 cents...

-Toby

I just photographed and released a neonate Northern Water Snake this past weekend (also a Black Rat Snake).
This is the Water Snake, is this what you found?

I do a lot of field herping (2 or 3 outings per week all summer)but I photograph and release. The Black Rat Snake is protected here in Ontario (and hard to find).

Thanks for the pic....and the info! That does look like the snakes I found...So they are water snakes...that is what I originally thought...
I am going after Gray nakes just to at least prove to myself they are not here in NY ...lol...Someone I know tells me they are here...but what if they are? Then what? Thanks Andy
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Andy, the subspecies of rat snake in NY is the Black ratsnake, Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta. Gray ratsnakes, Elaphe obsoleta spiloides, are mainly found along the Gulf Coast states, from FL to MS, and north into western TN. Subspecies are just regional variants of the same species of snake.......just as Boa constrictor constrictor and Boa constrictor imperator are the same snake, only regional variations.

I'm not sure why your friend would call a ratsnake in NY a Gray rat, but now you can go school him on the difference One other thing to note is that all Elaphe obsoleta subspecies look practically identical as hatchlings.

Are you familiar with google.com? A quick search for "black ratsnake new york" revealed these links:

www.esf.edu/PUBPROG/brochure/snakes/snakes.htm

www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/wildlife/herp/snakliza.html

Hopefully that helped answer some of your questions. Good luck finding some Black rats in NY.

Shane

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Lifelist

Just wanted to back up Shane's (and others) info, as a fellow New York Herper. No, Gray rats are not found anywhere even close to NY State. They are a characteristically southern animal. Black rats however are relatively common in many parts of NY.

Brad Chambers

That is some great info!! Thanks very much! Andy
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