Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm thinking I want to get some Darts...

But I don't know anything. The online sites are doing alright, but this no ventilation thing perplexes me.

Do they need UV lights? Basking areas? DO they even do this?

I've never had frogs..i'm a snake/tortoise kinda guy.

Are the mesh tops of cages a bad idea for dart frogs?

Is a 20gallon too big?

Am I just retarded?

Thanks!

You're not just retarded, no question is a stupid question. ^^

They do require a little ventilation, but no more than say, opening the door once a day to mist. They need the humidity and it also helps keep in the heat.

If you use a mesh screen, you won't be able to keep the tank at a level of humidity that would be comfortable for the frogs, they will not survive. (Aside from that, fruit flies will be able to climb out of it and you would have them all over your house)
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I think my frog owns a megaphone....

White's tree frogs : 1:1:0
Mantella viridis : 1:1:2

THEY don't need the UV light, but your plants do. I don't think that they ever bask, at least mine never did. One temperature at the bottom of the tank is sufficient. You will end up with slight variations at different heights, also. They really don't need any extra ventilation, as the other poster said, opening the top once a day to mist or to feed is plenty. Mesh tops are not your friend, as the other poster said. 20 gallon is fine, depending on the species and how many frogs. But remember that height is good, so make it a regular 20 gallon, not the 20 gallon long.

Hope this helps.

>>I'm thinking I want to get some Darts...
>>
>>But I don't know anything. The online sites are doing alright, but this no ventilation thing perplexes me.
>>
>>Do they need UV lights? Basking areas? DO they even do this?
>>
>>I've never had frogs..i'm a snake/tortoise kinda guy.
>>
>>Are the mesh tops of cages a bad idea for dart frogs?
>>
>>Is a 20gallon too big?
>>
>>Am I just retarded?
>>
>>Thanks!
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phflame
kingsnake.com host

You do NOT need UV for plants. Sorry pflame, that I disagree, but UV is not necessary for plants, but essential for utilizing calcium for animals by providing D3. With dart frogs, we skirt the lack of UV problem by providing D3 in the supplements we dust their fruit flies and other food with. You can essentially ignore providing basking under UV for dart frogs. They don't bask, but you do need to provide the D3 in their supplements that you dust the fruit flies and other food with. If you dust the food items with something like Repto-Cal and Herptivite on an alternate basis, or even mixed, there is rarely a problem. There are other dusts that may do as well, such as Dendrocare, or even some of the tree frog vitamins, but the former works out rather well for a hobbyist. Above all, you do need to give your frogs a powdered source of calcium above the fruit fly and other food, and a powdered source of D3 so they can utilize the calcium without UV exposure.

Putting UV lights on top of a dart tank with a glass top is useless, since the glass filters out all of the UV. Putting it inside the tank is even more problematic, because it would be too strong for them. In their rain forest habitat, the UV darts get is scattered and mellowed out. Not the same as reptiles with protective skins and scales.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
6 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
7 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
5 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
6 P. terribilis mint and organe
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus
2 P. lugubris

Yeah, I would go with slayton's plan...Plants do need a wide spectrum of visible light though, so definately get a good flouro. bulb to bring out those plant colors. As for supplements, get Dendroaid (?Right name?) It's a dart frog cal/vita supplement. Or get some sticky tongue farms miner-all indoor formula. Both of those should work...

I think the formula name is Dendrocare.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
6 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
7 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
5 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
6 P. terribilis mint and organe
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus
2 P. lugubris

Haha, yeah that's it! Thanks

and here I had heard that about the UV light (or full spectrum light) for plants for many years. Oh well, live and learn, right? So why do we provide the sunlight (or glolux bulbs) for plants?

I forgot about the dusting taking the place of the UV. Good thing that we have you posting all these facts, Patty, otherwise we would all have lots of problems.
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phflame
kingsnake.com host

The so called full spectrum sunlight plant lights don't include UV, even though one would think so by the "sunlight" name. We can grow house plants in a window sill, which the window glass filters out all UV lighting, but allows all of the other spectrum to come in. This is enough for the plants, but some of the reptiles and and amphibians we keep need UV for the D3 conversion to utilize calcium properly.

I like to think of this forum as a place to find answers for ourselves, rather than something that is stated and carved in stone. It's a back and forth sort of thing, always open to new ideas, experiences and opinions-- everyone welcome.

When I was doing my first research stuff, I signed up for a post graduate class in "topics in mammalian physiology." We each had to do a research topic and then present it at our meetings, which were held at the professor's house after school hours, in his living room. His wife served coffee and also baked some Hungarian goodies to enjoy at the end of the sessions. There were seven of us in this class, each into different subjects. I was chosen to present mine first, in the first semester, and I was nervous as hell, not really knowing what I was doing with my subject, which at that time was my research into the different types of hemoglobin and oxygen affinities between deep diving mammals
and high altitude animals such as mountain goats. As I talked, I no longer had to be nervous, because every one of my peers had something to add, or question, and knew something I didn't know to add to it, from their own, very different subjects of interest. At another time, my topic was feline leukemia-which I had done a lot of work on, and they all had something to add or suggest from their individual expertise in different areas. It was like being in the spotlight, about to faint or pee your pants because you are presenting something you have more or less memorized, don't think will be interesting, and then you are on the stage, and these wonderful people take over, get into it, listen to you, flail your ideas back and forth, give you more new ideas, criticise your mistakes, and make your time on earth worthwhile.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
6 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
7 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
5 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
6 P. terribilis mint and organe
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus
2 P. lugubris

you are so nice (plus SO diplomatic)! That give-and-take is a great way to learn.
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phflame
kingsnake.com host

just a suggestion that i highly suggest you follow- if you've never had frogs before DO NOT start with dart frogs.

and why not? SUre some species are unforgiving, but with proper research and setup, you could keep some of the more forgiving species quite easily. It's all in the research and time you are willing to put in. It is not our choice wether someone start with darts or not, the only thing we can do is help give them advice when they do have questions.
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I think my frog owns a megaphone....

White's tree frogs : 1:1:0
Mantella viridis : 1:1:2

I started out with dart frogs about eight years ago, amd had the kutzpah to put the first ones in a 135 gallon paludarium with a section for tropical fish. The original frogs are still alive, and so are most of the original tropical fish I always failed with in the past. If you just read up and follow the basics of temperature, humidity and feeding, they are easy to keep. I have about 12 different tanks of varying sizes and shapes and plantings now, all low maintenance, because they are biologically recycling. Frog losses have been low, and losses have been mostly due to my own stupidity about how easily they can escape through tiny cracks and turn into mummies on the floor in no time.

I tend to think that dart frogs in general, although not all of them, are a great way to start out. A pair of D. tinctorius or azureus, a group of leucomelas, galactonotus, or any of the auratus morphs, P. terribilis, are happy campers with a planted environment, the proper humidity, and some vitamin dusted fruit flies. There are some that may be a bit more demanding, or actually intimidating. Some species are more territorial than others, so need to be kept in mated pairs for the best results. Then there are the groupies, such as the leucomelas, glactonotus, P. terribilis, and even the thumbnail imitators, that do well with a bunch of them together.

If you do your homework, build a tank that has the proper temperatures and humidity, (65 to 80 degrees and above 80% humidity most of the time), plant it with live, small tropical plants to recycle the wastes, either have a false bottom and a waterway, or simply a drainage area of gravel under the substrate, and culture a lot of fruit flies to feed them, dusted with calcium and vitamins, the darts will prosper.

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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
6 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
7 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
5 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
6 P. terribilis mint and organe
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus
2 P. lugubris

it's just a suggestion. you're right, we have absolutly no control over what he/she gets. usually when anybody gets a pet they have to do some expiromenting, no matter how much research they did. darts are very different than other frogs, and i think anybody who buys them should have at least a little expiroment with other types of frogs before hand, but if this person is really set on getting darts first i would suggest getting leucomelas. i have one and they are wonderful little darts, they grow very fast, they are extremely bold (at least mine is), and even all the books say they are terrestrial mines up at the top of the tank about half the time. they are definetily one of the more forgiving species. to answer your question, they don't need UVB or anything, they don't bask so they don't need a basking light. i've never used a screen top with darts because the fruit flies could get through the holes and thats primarly what they eat. i guess you could feed crickets, but that would be very expensive, one leuc eats about 50-70 a day so thats like 5$ a day. one other very important thing is that you get the fruit flies ready and breeding well before you get the frog(s). a good mixture is potatoe flakes, white vinigear (to prevent mold-very important)half water. then add other stuff like banannas, malasas... a 20 gallon would be good for a pair. female leucs get very territorial and often drown the other one competing for a male, so i wouldn't get more than one female. i have my leuc in a tank with an auratus and they seem to be doing good together. that way you get the best of both worlds. i wouldn't start with any thumbnail species though. good luck and contact me if you have any more questions.