Reptile & Amphibian Forums

If god didnt want us to cut them, he wouldnt have made scissors.

Scissors were likely invented in 1500 BC in ancient Egypt. These were likely shears with the joint at the far end. Modern cross-bladed scissors were invented by Romans around AD 100. Just a random fact.

that was hilarious

I'd call that a little more than cutting. I've seen plenty of people slit eggs but I've never seen one totally cut in half like that. Good luck with it. I hope she makes it out ok.
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John Vandegrift

Folks have a sense of humor. I cut the shell that after the veins were gone and the snake was just absorbing the last bit of yolk to take this shot. Heck, there were breeders in Daytona taking snakes out of their eggs to put on the table for sale.

some people also jump off bridges so does that mean we all should.I just like letting them come out on there own whats 1 or 2 more days. I beleive it also makes for a better picture.

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Vince Pramuk

I have to agree! Those are the best pictures!
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Nita Hamilton
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Ball Pythons
ballpythonworld.com

Not only does it make for a better and more natural picture, it makes for a bigger and healthier animal. Are we really that darned impatient that we can't wait for nature (which we are TRYING to imitate) to take its natural course?? This isn't Christmas eve and the majority of us aren't seven years old anymore, begging mommy to let us open the presents early.

You guys are so funny. I knew that this thread would stir up a little controversy.

and thats exactly why you started the thread IMO.
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John Vandegrift

I know of one brand new morph that died this season due to cutting like you did. There is a pic of it still in the egg on this forum before it died.
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John Vandegrift

These eggs were not cut until the vein network attached to the egg shell was already gone. The top part of the shell was only serving the purpose of security and privacy for the snake inside. I would agree that it is dangerous to cut away a shell of a freshly pipped egg shell or one that still has a vein network attached. These particular animals were a couple of hours at the most from coming out of the egg. I have been breeding snakes since 1987 and have never lost a snake for this reason. Boy this is fun. Life is so great when not being so judgemental. How about another one for the road?

By the way, both of these pastel ghosts are doing great and are in the 300 gram range after a couple of months.

NOT judgemental? You are being very judgemental when you post something you KNOW will cause a lot of response because you already know that there are a lot of people that don't agree with your impatient policy of cutting eggs just to get a "NEAT" photo or to find out if you have something new or different. Just because you have gotten away with a silly practice since 1987 doesn't make it the best method and really sends a bad message to the new people coming in to this fabulous hobby. You wanted to be judged or you wouldn't have posted the stupid photo!

Looking at my fish tank has a calming effect for me. Maybe this photo will help this situation out. Lets agree to disagree.

Wow that is a beautiful tank!!!
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

I know of 2 brand new combo's that died in the egg because the breeder started cutting eggs very early. Luckily one of the combo's was repeated and we get to admire it still. I cut 2 eggs this year. Both eggs failed to pip 2 days after the rest of the clutches were out of the egg and I was debating whether or not I needed to. Bot snakes had yolk left and after they absorbed it they both crawled out on their own through a hole that they created not even the one's that I cut, go figure.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of female holdbacks and several rescue normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

We have actually lost a few snakes in the past few years because they never broke out, and drowned. Now if they dont pip by day 55 we normally make a very small cut, just to check on them. We havent lost any since then and have never lost a snake that was pipped by our hand. Just our experience

I agree with that, but there a difference between a slit and removing half the egg.
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John Vandegrift

This has been a sore subject for some time. I have never had a ball python drown in the egg, but I usually cut most of them. I have hatched only 300 ball pythons. I have hatched almost 10,000 Burmese. Burmese WILL drown in the egg. I have had MANY burmese drown in the past until I started cutting eggs. I have also had them drown aftrer cutting the egg if you don't remove some excess fluid.

At the Florida Herp Conference about 10-12 years ago they had an egg incubation seminar, many of the big names were there, I think almost everyone cut their eggs.

If you wait until 54 -55 days there shouldn't be a problem. The only problem I can think of was voiced by Ralph at the ball python seminar in Daytona, he said a baby with a lot of yolk might try to crawl away from the egg and yolk while still attached. His solution was to place the baby in a small cup so It couldn't crawl away.

Have you ever felt like you are interfering with the natural selection process .

YES, that is exactly the point. When you cut you are allowing individuals that are not worthy to live and weaken the gene pool. But, hey that doesn't matter because the cutters will have made their money.

I can't believe how touchy a subject this has become. I don't know what condition eggs are in when they are maternally incubated in the wild. I'm sure there are some that shrivel up and die, others the eggs may become very soft and easy to escape from. I know I have seen a great variation in artificially incubated eggs.

I have seen plenty of perfect full term normal size burmese that pipped their eggs and still drowned. If we are going to create an artificial enviroment for eggs that results in eggs that are full of fluid, and also are possibly tougher than eggs that are laid in the wild, it doesn't hurt to finish the process and help them escape the enviroment we have created.

As far as your argument goes, that only the strong should survive, I guess we shouldn't assist feed a new hatchling that after a month or so still refuses to eat and is losing weight. Should we also not give any medical attention to them if they are sick, after all only the strong should survive.

Again, drowning in the egg doesn't seem to be as big a problem with balls as it is with burmese.

so on that subject, if a human woman is having trouble giving birth we shouldn't help her out surgically? Because her body isn't performing properly we shouldn't allow any more of her genes to be spread in the population. MY GOD, IN 20 YEARS ALL WOMEN WILL HAVE TO GIVE BIRTH VIA C-SECTION. No animal is more worthy of living over another. If we choose to bring a life, human or animal, into this world, we have an obligation to help it live as long as the animal will not live in constant pain and suffering.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of female holdbacks and several rescue normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

We are interfering from the very start. With artificial incubation, the eggs are usually better hydrated, this means the egg is full of fluid, when the snake pips the egg is still full instead of having an air pocket.

Again, I have not had a ball python drown, but burmese certainly will. I cut eggs as soon as one pips or around 54-55 days for balls, I have never had a problem.

I remember reading on this forum once where someone stated they waited until day 65 and cut eggs and they still died. If snakes haven't hatched by day 65, I really doubt that cutting them open is what caused their death.

In the past we have only had 4-5 babies drown in their eggs, and they were eggs that did not dimple prior to hatching. I sorry but if i can save a life with a small slit then i am sure as He** going to make that small cut. Im not about to stand by and watch an animal die b/c it is not "suited to live". That statement is ridiculous. If your dog gets hit by a car you do everything in your power to save that animals life, you dont shrug your sholders and walk away and leave the animal to die b/c it may not have a chance a living any longer. Give me a break. Your telling me if none of your eggs have hatched by day 60 and they are all still filled with fluid that you would just let them rot instead of trying to save the animals you broght into this world? You have got to be kidding me. I agree with you Mike , day 54-55 is a perfect time to "slit" balls, i am not saying to filet your eggs, although in the pic he posted it is obvious that all the veins were already absorbed wich means at that point there is no harm in cutting away the excess egg, but i would rather cut then have them die even if death is in the lower percentile. Just my opinions.

for those that don't ,please don't cut them I wouldn't recomend anyone to cut them unless they have done this before and know how to keep the veins down,as far as a more natual look ,well whats so natual about a pied or a lesser or any morph...sitting in perlite,,lol.For those that don't know how please don't do IT..!!!After 20 years doing it go ahead .and people that have been doing this 2 years please don't and then cry about it.no offence

Greg VanZweden
http://www.vanzwedenreptiles.com/

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Forever Trust in what we are,and nothing else Matters

I apprecieate your support, but I am a reformed top egg cutter. Thanks to you all for helping me kick the habit.

Ya smart Arse!!!

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

Lol hey you can't do that...? can you hahahahahaha
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Forever Trust in what we are,and nothing else Matters