Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My “Scute” Bite

Snakes have fascinated me, like many people, for my whole life. I grew up in Southern Indiana catching and releasing snakes in the wild as a kid. I graduated to keeping non-venomous snakes and then to keeping and working with venomous snakes.

In Arizona, I assisted the Cochise County Sheriff’s Office and the Arizona Game and Fish Department with venomous reptile capture, rescue, holding and relocation. I also conducted educational presentations, including venomous and non-venomous snakes, to various groups and schools. I had special holding and capture permits from AZ Game and Fish. I was (and am) a member of the Arizona Herpetological Association (www.sloanmonster.com) and a volunteer for their snake relocation program. I also was (and am) a member of the Michigan Society of Herpetologists (www.michherp.org) and a viewer of the Southeastern Hot Herp Society web page (www.venomousreptiles.org).

I spent some time in Florida and assisted with the handling of many exotic venomous snakes including: Ophiophagus Hannah, Dendroaspis angusticeps, Bitis gabonica and Dendroaspis polyepsis among others.

I had handled, kept, milked and released hundreds of rattlesnakes and was as “comfortable” as I felt was possible with the handling and behavior of rattlesnakes. At the time I had 12 non-venomous species, 2 Crotalus atrox and 2 Crotalus scutulatus. The “scutes” were from the Cochise County area where the AZ Poison Control Center and some toxicologists are concerned that there may be some especially toxic “scutes”, not just with the Type A mojavetoxin but other unidentified toxic properties, based on the severity of bites and the resulting deaths.

On Saturday, June 3, 2006, I had unlocked and opened the cage of a particularly nasty “scute” to fill up the water bowl and to feed it. The snake was at the opposite end of the cage and I reached in with 18” forceps to grab the water bowl. Before I knew it (how many times have you heard that?) I got tagged on my right index finger between the first and second knuckles. I only got 1 fang as the other broke off on the tongs. I locked the cage and noticed a drop of venom on the outside of the fang mark so I knew it wasn’t a dry bite.

Although I never expected to get bitten, I knew it was always a possibility so I didn’t panic. I wiped the venom off my finger and immediately felt the “burn” associated with rattlesnake bites. I went in the house and told my 16 year old son, Jose’, that I just took a bite from one of the rattlesnakes and here is where I made a decision contrary to common belief that probably saved my life. I decided to drive myself to the hospital and here’s why.

Our local hospital has had some issues in the past with snakebite victims. Since I knew there were some toxicological concerns with the local “scutes” I wanted to be sure the treating physicians knew exactly what they were dealing with, what symptoms were likely to occur and what to do about them. I also wanted to be awake long enough to let them know that I knew what I was talking about and knew exactly what type of snake bit me. I didn’t think I had time to call paramedics, explain everything to them, get taken to the hospital and explain everything again.

The hospital was only 4 or 5 miles away and I made it there within 5 minutes of the bite. By the way, I told my son to tell my wife about the bite AFTER I had left for the hospital. I knew there would be drama there because my wife is not a snake fan.

At the hospital, I was ushered into the ER immediately and began telling the physicians that I was bitten by a Mojave rattlesnake, Crotalus scutulatus, with Type A venom, showed them the bite site and explained the progression of my symptoms. About a minute later, my lips and the fingers of my left hand, the one not bitten, started tingling. The burning sensation, which REALLY f-ing hurts by the way, continued to progress into my right hand.

I started feeling weak and began to experience tunnel vision. The tingling in my lips and hand turned to numbness and the tunnel vision began to get worse until I could not see. About 15 minutes after the bite I passed out. My airway started closing and, even with the smallest gauge airway tube, they could barely get me intubated. The tube scraped down my throat because of the swelling and my mouth filled with blood. They gave me 6 vials of CroFab and sent me to the University Medical Center in Tucson via helicpter.

At the UMC Intensive Care Unit, I was given 48 more vials of CroFab and was unconscious for 10 days. The doctors told my wife that they did not know from minute to minute while I was out if I would make it or not. I stayed in ICU for 15 days and was released. I lost 30 pounds and was very weak for about a month and a half.

Because of the Type A venom, I did not have a lot of local tissue damage and did not lose my finger. The doctors and toxicologists are not sure whether it was the extra strong venom of the Cochise County “scute”, but I did have an anaphylactic reaction to the venom itself not the CroFab. Chris Harper of the Southeastern Hot Herp Society wrote an informative article about this a few years ago. It is possible that my handling and close contact with rattlesnakes over the years caused me to develop an allergy to the venom.

An MD/toxicologist and a toxicologist in Tucson are using my blood and the venom from the snake to try and isolate the toxin that may or may not be present in the Cochise County “scutes”. They will also discover if I was actually allergic to the venom.

My stay at the local hospital (under 1 hour) cost $16,000. The helicopter flight from there to Tucson cost $13,000. My stay at the hospital in Tucson cost $300,000 - very expensive for a hobby that was not bringing any money in.

AZ Poison Control Center has my rattlesnakes and I had to get rid of my non-venomous snakes, too because my wife will not tolerate snakes around the house after my near-death experience.

A member of the AHS once said, “What works a million times may not work a million and one”. This pretty much sums up my experience.

Kenny Duke
Sierra Vista Snakes
Lowell, MI
kenneth.duke@dhs.gov

Kenny, thankfully, you are alive and well and have a family that can still enjoy having you around. As a family man myself, and as a herpetologist who works with many venomous snakes on a daily basis, it is something that enters my mind on occasion. No matter how careful you are, accidents can happen. They shouldn't, but they can. It is so easy to underestimate or let your guard down with an animal that you have worked with countless times w/out any incident. Its a good lesson learned....especially your last line. Many folks just assume that if they have antivenin that they'll be okay; that just isn't the case. Thanks for sharing.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>My “Scute” Bite
>>
>>Snakes have fascinated me, like many people, for my whole life. I grew up in Southern Indiana catching and releasing snakes in the wild as a kid. I graduated to keeping non-venomous snakes and then to keeping and working with venomous snakes.
>>
>>In Arizona, I assisted the Cochise County Sheriff’s Office and the Arizona Game and Fish Department with venomous reptile capture, rescue, holding and relocation. I also conducted educational presentations, including venomous and non-venomous snakes, to various groups and schools. I had special holding and capture permits from AZ Game and Fish. I was (and am) a member of the Arizona Herpetological Association (www.sloanmonster.com) and a volunteer for their snake relocation program. I also was (and am) a member of the Michigan Society of Herpetologists (www.michherp.org) and a viewer of the Southeastern Hot Herp Society web page (www.venomousreptiles.org).
>>
>>I spent some time in Florida and assisted with the handling of many exotic venomous snakes including: Ophiophagus Hannah, Dendroaspis angusticeps, Bitis gabonica and Dendroaspis polyepsis among others.
>>
>>I had handled, kept, milked and released hundreds of rattlesnakes and was as “comfortable” as I felt was possible with the handling and behavior of rattlesnakes. At the time I had 12 non-venomous species, 2 Crotalus atrox and 2 Crotalus scutulatus. The “scutes” were from the Cochise County area where the AZ Poison Control Center and some toxicologists are concerned that there may be some especially toxic “scutes”, not just with the Type A mojavetoxin but other unidentified toxic properties, based on the severity of bites and the resulting deaths.
>>
>>On Saturday, June 3, 2006, I had unlocked and opened the cage of a particularly nasty “scute” to fill up the water bowl and to feed it. The snake was at the opposite end of the cage and I reached in with 18” forceps to grab the water bowl. Before I knew it (how many times have you heard that?) I got tagged on my right index finger between the first and second knuckles. I only got 1 fang as the other broke off on the tongs. I locked the cage and noticed a drop of venom on the outside of the fang mark so I knew it wasn’t a dry bite.
>>
>>Although I never expected to get bitten, I knew it was always a possibility so I didn’t panic. I wiped the venom off my finger and immediately felt the “burn” associated with rattlesnake bites. I went in the house and told my 16 year old son, Jose’, that I just took a bite from one of the rattlesnakes and here is where I made a decision contrary to common belief that probably saved my life. I decided to drive myself to the hospital and here’s why.
>>
>>Our local hospital has had some issues in the past with snakebite victims. Since I knew there were some toxicological concerns with the local “scutes” I wanted to be sure the treating physicians knew exactly what they were dealing with, what symptoms were likely to occur and what to do about them. I also wanted to be awake long enough to let them know that I knew what I was talking about and knew exactly what type of snake bit me. I didn’t think I had time to call paramedics, explain everything to them, get taken to the hospital and explain everything again.
>>
>>The hospital was only 4 or 5 miles away and I made it there within 5 minutes of the bite. By the way, I told my son to tell my wife about the bite AFTER I had left for the hospital. I knew there would be drama there because my wife is not a snake fan.
>>
>>At the hospital, I was ushered into the ER immediately and began telling the physicians that I was bitten by a Mojave rattlesnake, Crotalus scutulatus, with Type A venom, showed them the bite site and explained the progression of my symptoms. About a minute later, my lips and the fingers of my left hand, the one not bitten, started tingling. The burning sensation, which REALLY f-ing hurts by the way, continued to progress into my right hand.
>>
>>I started feeling weak and began to experience tunnel vision. The tingling in my lips and hand turned to numbness and the tunnel vision began to get worse until I could not see. About 15 minutes after the bite I passed out. My airway started closing and, even with the smallest gauge airway tube, they could barely get me intubated. The tube scraped down my throat because of the swelling and my mouth filled with blood. They gave me 6 vials of CroFab and sent me to the University Medical Center in Tucson via helicpter.
>>
>>At the UMC Intensive Care Unit, I was given 48 more vials of CroFab and was unconscious for 10 days. The doctors told my wife that they did not know from minute to minute while I was out if I would make it or not. I stayed in ICU for 15 days and was released. I lost 30 pounds and was very weak for about a month and a half.
>>
>>Because of the Type A venom, I did not have a lot of local tissue damage and did not lose my finger. The doctors and toxicologists are not sure whether it was the extra strong venom of the Cochise County “scute”, but I did have an anaphylactic reaction to the venom itself not the CroFab. Chris Harper of the Southeastern Hot Herp Society wrote an informative article about this a few years ago. It is possible that my handling and close contact with rattlesnakes over the years caused me to develop an allergy to the venom.
>>
>>An MD/toxicologist and a toxicologist in Tucson are using my blood and the venom from the snake to try and isolate the toxin that may or may not be present in the Cochise County “scutes”. They will also discover if I was actually allergic to the venom.
>>
>>My stay at the local hospital (under 1 hour) cost $16,000. The helicopter flight from there to Tucson cost $13,000. My stay at the hospital in Tucson cost $300,000 - very expensive for a hobby that was not bringing any money in.
>>
>>AZ Poison Control Center has my rattlesnakes and I had to get rid of my non-venomous snakes, too because my wife will not tolerate snakes around the house after my near-death experience.
>>
>>A member of the AHS once said, “What works a million times may not work a million and one”. This pretty much sums up my experience.
>>
>>Kenny Duke
>>Sierra Vista Snakes
>>Lowell, MI
>>kenneth.duke@dhs.gov
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Thank you very much for shareing your experince. Your account was very detailed and very much help bring into light the extyream danger involved from this hobby. Im glad beyond words that you were able to pull through. Your case is one of the most sever I have ever heard of regarding U.S Crotalus bites and serves as a good warning to all of those who think they are imune to the severe consequnces just because they can obtain AV at a local hospital.

Regarding your comments about increased sensitivity. I too experinced this but luckly before a bite occured. I had kept 6 naja for almost 3 yr (1.1 kaouthia, 2.2 pallida). The last few months I had the animals in my possesion I noticed allergic fits begining everytime I opened the pallidas cage. I wold start sneezing non stop, my eyes would dry out and burn. Occasionaly near the end I would even experince hives.

I attribute this to a long term exposure to venom, specificly the pallida who would generously spary their cages down. After a mnth or two the symptoms got worse and worse amd were easily traced back to the pallida. As soon as I found a good home for the snakes I droped them off and have been venomous free ever since ; ;

For people like us getting rid of your venomous is almost like giving up your child. It was one of the saddest desicions I ever had to make but one that no doubt will save my life.

I still go out into the woods and look for venomous but limit my exposure because I know a bite could drop me even quicker then most.

In closeing please please please, never underestimate these wonderfull animals. In my case it was easy to determin the source since I had spitters. However, as this account has shown, you may not know untill its too late.

Thanks again for your detailed account. I am very sorry this happened to you ; ;

i'm glad you recovered from the bit. thats amazing that you needed so many vials of cro-fab. did you get serum sickness?

i'm a father of 5 boys and snakes have been a part of my life for over 30 years. i been catching and releasing rattle snakes for most of that time. i've always been very careful when collecting venomous reptiles.

well i had my wake up call in july. i was mountain biking when i spotted a beautiful little southern pacific rattle snake. the snake was a very nice brown and white with a yellow tail area. i had to have it but in my hast i made one small mistake and was bit on my index finger. it bit me right through my riding glove. there wasn't any pain it just felt like i had been bitten by a normal no venomous snake. i removed my glove and saw on spot on my finger that was bleeding. i decided since the bite broke the skin i should go the the hospital to have it checked out.

well i rode my mountain bike back to my truck. as i rode back (mostly down hill) i could feel my fingure tips on both hands, toes and lips starting to tingel. when i reached my truck my finger was about double it's normal size. i through my bike in the back and headed for the hospital which was about 15 miles away. when i reached the hospital my hand was the size of a rubber glove that was blown up like a ballon. i was surprised when i got out of my truck i was staggering a bit. my feet, hands, lip and tongue were tingling like when your arm falls asleep.

i was taken into the er right away. i explained to the doctor about the type of snake it was and the symtoms i was having. it had been about 35 minutes since the bite occured. i didn't receive the first vial of cro-fab for another 30 minutes or so. by this time i wasn't able to talk very well because my mouth was so numb and tingly. when the first vial of cro-fab was in me the tingling started to subside and i felt some relief.

the doctor told me i would be in the hospital for 3 or 4 days but after 10 vials of cro-fab the swelling started to subside. it had reached my shoulder and started down my left side. i was very fortunet that i was released the next evening. i spent a total of 24 hours in the hospital.

i have to say my biggest worry through the whole thing was what did i do to my family. it was a definite wake up call. i still have rattle snakes but i will never take them for granted again.

the bill i got from the hospital was $53365.00 one expensive 24 hour vacation. (lol)

be carefull all.

No, I didn't get serum sickness. It's pretty rare with CroFab because it's made from sheep blood rather than horse. The assistant director at AZ Poison Control says that he has not heard of anyone getting more vials than I did so I guess I have the record in AZ -great. He has been involved professionally with venomous snake bites for years and says I had the worst reaction to a bite that he has ever seen. By the way, in the local hospitol CroFab was $2000 per vial and in Tucson it was $3000. Not like the old days when you could buy antivenom for leass than $100 per vial and keep them in your freezer.

Stay safe!

"Not like the old days when you could buy antivenom for leass than $100 per vial and keep them in your freezer."

You can still do that, just not with the garbage we have here.
Hopefully, CroFab will soon have some competition with a more effective, less expensive AV. Luckily it worked well for you.
Glad everything turned out well and thanks for sharing.