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Anyone use Vision cages for there Uros?

in2deep Sep 20, 2006 06:33 PM

Hi all. I've been quietly lurking in the shadows for some time now, and I think a Mali would be a good reintroduction to reptiles. I'm not a complete newb, but it's been a few years since my last herp experience.

Anyone here use the Vision cages (for Uros or others). I'm looking at the Vision V433 (48x28x28). It appears that there is not much ventilation after you put on a heat lamp (or 2) and a flourescent UV fixture. I live in Utah, so humidity usually stays low. Will the apparent lack of ventilation cause any problems?

Any other thoughts on commercially available housing? I've looked at Showcase Cages, Custom Cages and Animal Plastics, and vision seems to have the best combination of features.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks in advance for any thoughts... Love the forum. It's very educational.:P

Replies (6)

in2deep Sep 20, 2006 06:37 PM

By the way, I know I need to do more research. Please no lecturing If I decide this is definately the road I want to go down, I'll probably get the Mali from Deerfern. I want to set myself up for success.
Research, research, research...

el_toro Sep 20, 2006 06:53 PM

I have two Showcase cages (no Vision, sorry). They're OK, but they need lots of modification - drilling vent holes, adding lighting/heating fixtures, etc. And I hate that they're only 18" high. I know one person who is working with the Animal Plastics and thinks they have potential. She's working with the guy from the company to get the venting right - they hold heat extremely well (too well currently) and are stronger for stacking. The showcase and visions can't hold much weight if you're stacking them.

Also, keep Lindsay Pike (Urotopia.com) in mind - he's an excellent, well-recommended source for uros.
-----
Torey
Eugene, Oregon, USA
1.1 Saharan Uros (Joe and Arthur)
3.1 Mali Uros (Spike, Turtle, Tank, and Lilly)
1.1 Ornate Uros (Scuttlebutt and Shazzbot)
0.1 Collared Lizard (Rorschach)
2.1 Green Anoles (Bowser, Sprocket, Leeloo)
1.1 Chubby Housecats (Roscolux and Jenny)

Arredondo Sep 20, 2006 08:25 PM

We custom build our cages but still have some Visions in use. My main problem with them is that the "dam" is too low & allows the sliding glass tracks to be forever jammed with substrate (sand, in our case). Ventilation has never been an issue.

esoteric Sep 21, 2006 12:47 AM

I've got two Visions and I really dislike them. As mentioned, the tracks get filled with stuff and they make a lot of noise. Timid animals don't seem to overcome this and may regress. The cages sag with minimal weight... thumbs DOWN. I had melting problems when using 100-150 watt lights/heaters in them so now I have duct tape and MegaHeat emitters that don't melt anything. I also modified mine to run a 3 foot UV bulb inside (3 foot cage) as the other options for internal mounting of lights really was underwhelming. Look through my photo gallery and you should find the pics.
I've built my own cages overcoming every problem I've had in the Visions for a lot less. Even my glass tanks are better to deal with than the Visions. I'd sooner recommend some of those 60 gallon totes from someplace like Home Depot with fixtures run across the top (which I have done on occasion).
-----
uromastyx geyri (Saharan/Nigerian), hardwickii (Indian),
macfadyeni (Somalian), ocellata (Sudanese), ornata (Ornate), benti pseudophilbyi

in2deep Sep 21, 2006 06:08 AM

Okay. Certainly not glowing reviews for either Showcase or Vision.

Anyone ever hear anything good/bad/indifferent on Custom Cages?
(www.customcages.com) You can get a 60x24x24 for about the same as the 4ft long Vision. One of the options is to rout out a portion of the top and screen it, thus improving ventilation. In addition, it looks like you can go to the local hardware store and purchase a standard ceramic incandescent light fixtue or 2 and a flourescent shop light and bolt those directly into the top with minimal effort. Just add a bulb gaurd around the heat bulb and heating and lighting should be pretty much done. Down side is these look rather heavy, and long term stacking could be a problem.

Any thoughts along these lines?

Again, thanks for all the help.

debb_luvs_uros Sep 23, 2006 09:02 AM

So far, I really like the Animal Plastics enclosures. The material is a ½” thick controlled density pvc which is lightweight and yet quite sturdy. When I first opened the shipment, I was a little apprehensive. The material somewhat reminded me of a harder foam board and being so lightweight, I had some concerns for the structural integrity. Of course, this was solely due to me not understanding the material or product. I have no doubt in my mind after assembling and using nine of these enclosures that they are very solid.

I originally ordered a group of these enclosures as I wanted to find an enclosure that had fewer drawbacks than the other enclosures that I was using. A big drawback for me with most of my enclosures is a lack of heat retention (even in the Visions) so my goal was to find an enclosure with minimal drawbacks that was more efficient than those I had.

The AP enclosures work terrific in the area of heat retention. In fact, they work so well that even though we allowed for extra venting on the sides and back, we found ourselves in need of a different venting option for reptiles requiring higher basking temperatures such as bearded dragons and uromastyx. Achieving the basking temperature and warm gradient was not difficult- just maintaining the cool end

AP has several top options for their enclosures including screen cutouts for heating/lighting and a closed top model for stacking. My needs require enclosures that I can stack so the heating/venting specifics in this post will be referring to those models with a closed top. Although I have not used the model with the partial screen top, I would assume that the heat venting is more forgiving then the closed top model.

After a number of attempts experimenting with different venting options, we now have vented sides for the closed top model that allow for a proper basking spot and gradient (including cool zone) for uromastyx. Although I am still testing out various combinations of room temperature, substrate, bulb combinations, and enclosure placement (stacking) -I can provide the results I have seen so far.

I ran the T11 which is 48x24x18 (would not recommend smaller) with a 50-watt GE halogen 35 beam flood over a 16x16 natural slate tile with a 9-watt compact fluorescent bulb on the other end. I also ran similar trials with a 100-watt SB Westron uvb light and compact fluorescent, and a 75-watt Sylvania Haloflood 50 beam bulb and compact fluorescent. All situations maintained basking temperatures in the low to mid 130 range (75watt getting to 143), a warm gradient 90-101, and cool zone of 82-88F. I am just giving the ‘high’ end of the basking spot so of course it was lower in various sections of the slate. I ran testing with 60# Kraft paper and particulate (millet) substrate and was able to maintain these parameters over several days with an ambient room temperature of 75-77. I am in the process of testing other bulb combinations, different substrates, and stacking order. I have yet to test the EB Westron with a heat bulb but I will be doing that in the near future. All of the above numbers were obtained from a top enclosure of a stack of three.

In addition to the heat retention (which is now a positive), the enclosures stack well and are aesthetically pleasing. For those already familiar with AP enclosures- the standard venting on the back and sides is still there but a vented screen panel has been installed on each of the ends. I ordered the 48x24 (T11) but my next shipment will be 48x30 (T13) as the interior (width) dimensions of the T11 ends up to be approx 20.5 inches due to the recessed door tracking. I prefer more width and the T13 will provide this.

The riser/lip/dam in the AP enclosure is typically 3 inches but can be ordered at almost any height. I am finding some particulate debris in the tracking with the 3-inch lip but my belief is that some of this will occur regardless of the height of the lip due to digging/kicking of substrate and the higher activity level of these animals. I mention this, as the riser/lip height is flexible and can be extended.

These enclosures do come in panels/pieces so they will need to be assembled. Assembly is not difficult as long as you are not allowing a man to step in and attempt to assemble it without reading the directions. While some might find this construction a minor inconvenience, it does have a benefit. Shipping cost appears to be quite a bit lower than the cost of similar sized one-piece enclosures. I personally did not find assembly a challenge (once all the men were kicked out of the room) and I am one of those people that typically demonstrates little patience with such activities.

In addition to assembly-, the enclosures come with colored sealant (black or white) to match the enclosure. I sealed my original enclosures but I am not certain that this step is necessary. I removed the sealant from two enclosures (when reinstalled new sides) and will run those without sealant just to see if I come across any issues. So far, I have not. The design is one where I do not feel you would have to seal if using the enclosure for uromastyx but the enclosures do come with the sealant so you have the choice.

The lighting is also a little different from AP’s other enclosure lighting with the addition of a two-piece ceramic socket that can be installed in the ceiling panel. Although a few might think that this is overkill for an incandescent bulb or compact fluorescent (I use ceramic sockets for everything), it does allow flexibility if you want to change your heat bulb around. I had a ceramic socket installed on each end of the T11 but lighting is flexible so the number would be up to the individual as well as the type of fixture. The company was able to route out two channels into the top panel so that wiring is recessed for stacking. I have been using this particular ceramic socket for several years in other enclosures so I was thrilled that the company was able to work this into their design. If someone would prefer a ceramic socket on one end and a fluorescent strip light on the other, I would assume that this could be done as well but you would want to check to verify that recessed routing can be done for the wiring on that particular fixture.

If you contact AP on this specific setup, please mention the fact that you are looking at an enclosure for uromastyx with the new lighting and vented sides. The new venting and ceramic lighting can be placed in any enclosure so if you decide to go bigger (I will eventually replace all my 6’ Visions with 6' AP enclosures), this can certainly be done. If you do step up to a larger enclosure, I would recommend more lighting whether that be the addition of more ceramic sockets or fluorescent fixtures. Again, I would not recommend anything smaller than the T11. If you do not have the desire or need to stack enclosures, consider the top that has the screen cutouts. You would still have the option of the vented sides if you desire more ventilation. This might be a terrific idea for basking reptiles that require lower ambient gradients.

If you would like more details from me about this enclosure, feel free to contact me. I do have pictures of the venting and lighting for those that might be visual like me. I will eventually get all of this (including photos) up on my website but this might take several weeks as I will be traveling for the next week and then attending the upcoming NARBC show in Chicago. Incidentally, AP will have this product at the Chicago show for those that might want to see the enclosure in person.

Please note that I do not have any vested interest in this company- I simply like the product and was thrilled that someone in this hobby cared enough to listen to the customer and was willing to work diligently with them to tailor one of their products to better fit the needs of a particular group of reptiles. I guess I should clarify my last statement- I think the increased venting will benefit more than uromastyx, I can see it benefiting every type of basking reptile in the hobby- I am just grateful that someone like Mark at AP was willing to listen and work on the issue.

Wow, I am just incapable of a short post aren’t I? Well, at least I am an admitted typoholic and that is the first step in the road to recovery.

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