Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A local cabinet shop uses clear coat products: Gemini PC-0090 Clear Precat Glass Lacquer and/or Gemini VS-0100 Vinyl Sealer. Anyone know if this is suitable for finishing the oak plywood interior of a reptile cage?

Thanks!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

I was pretty certain that your cabinet shop would spray a pre-catalyzed lacquer. Precats are great products and offer a nice combination of durability along with ease of application and repair.

However, they have been banned in Europe recently due to the fact that when used in enclosed environments they off-gas formaldehyde for extended periods of time. Even proponents of their use have noticed that the insides of drawers finished with precats have an odor months after the cabinets are completed.

However, I have heard of pre catalyzed lacquers being used in reptile enclosures and don't know of any obvious negative effects. But of course the bigger concern with formaldehyde is that the effects may be more long term and not immediately noticable.

Ultimately I'd have to say I don't recommend them. The finish they offer is nowhere near the most water resistant and with the offgassing concern I just don't think it's worth it.

I might consider having the exterior of a reptile enclosure shot with precatalyzed lacquer but not the interior.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

Ain't takin' no chances with lingering harzadous fumes. I had my doubts about the stuff when the guy I was talking to told me that it was vanilla scented. I figured someone was trying to cover something up (fumes), which wouldn't need to be done if they didn't last more than a few days or so.

If no one knows of a safe clear coat I suppose I'll just go ahead and paint the interior and then add Wilsonart, expanded pvc, or something comparable, to the floor & the lower portion of the walls.

Seeing as how I'll be building the cage in 2 parts I might could clear coat the interior pieces and let them cure in the sun before assembling them. Maybe, maybe not. (Paint it, HH, Paint it! And move on! Good grief!)

Thanks!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

If no one knows of a safe clear coat I suppose I'll just go ahead and paint the interior and then add Wilsonart, expanded pvc, or something comparable, to the floor & the lower portion of the walls.

There are plenty of safe clear finishes, you just have to decide which is the right compromise for you. Here are some choices:

1)Sweetwater Epoxy (clear). This is a nasty, solvent-based epoxy but is completely safe once cured. It is rated suitable for potable water and is popular in the fish industry. You can literally make a marine aquarium out of plywood sealed with this stuff.

A couple of downsides, however. It probably will yellow and haze somewhat over time, although I have not heard this specifically about this epoxy. In general, however, the solvent based clear epoxies tend to yellow and develop micro-cracks in the surface which take away from the look, although they still do their job.

There is a gecko keeper who used this stuff a few years ago. I'll see if I can track him down and have him report on the appearance of the stuff after a few years.

2) Bonakemi Traffic. This is the cadillac of waterborn, catalyzed floor finishes. It is essentially a waterborne epoxy. Completely clear and stays that way for years. Also, a very repairable finish given its durability. Remember that as finishes increase in durability they tend to decrease in repairability. So that super duper finish is great until it gets scratched or fails somehow and you can't repair it.

3) Some of the better one-part waterborne polyurethanes. Target, Fuhr, and General Finishes all make good one-part "out of the can" urethanes. My one concern with these is how well they'll hold up to the urates of a burmese. Those first few inches of the cage walls could really take a beating.

I'll look up your location and see if there is a distributor of one of these products.

Seeing as how I'll be building the cage in 2 parts I might could clear coat the interior pieces and let them cure in the sun before assembling them.

Never let any finish cure in the sun unless the product specifically says to do so. Nothing breaks down a finish like UV, even the UV stablized ones.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

I don't know how I could have forgotten all of the various bartop epoxies. I sealed this oak cage with Envirotex Lite.

This and other similar products are solvent free and readily available. I have heard of them being used in boa cages and still looking like glass after ten years.

They are applied VERY thick so there is never a need for repair. If the surface gets hazed it can be buffed back out to it's original sheen. And I'm pretty sure you can always pour another coat, even years later.

There are some minor issues, however. Due to the required thickness it gets very expensive to seal a cage. More expensive than any other product, unless you're contracting out a pro finisher to spray something.

Also, some people don't mix the product well enough and it never sets up. This could be a huge issue if you end up using it and have to dump your new cage into a dumpster. I have used it a few times and have never had any issue at all.

Lastly, it does not deal well with extreme localized heat. Not a problem for a burmese, especially if you use a radiant heat panel, which I would recommend anyways.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

Nice cage, Chris! Good job!

Since I plan on also using something like Wilsonart or expanded pvc I probably will take the easier route of clear coating.

The more I think about it, especially after seeing that cage, I'm glad I decided not to go with the maple-grain melamine. I love natural wood grain.

Catch ya later!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Do you know anything about any of the Hydrocote products that are supposed to be non-toxic, waterbased?
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

In the waterborne world, Hydrocote is not the company that tends to first come to mind. Target/Oxford along with Fuhr tend to get the most attention.

I'll try to do some specific research on their products.

Do you know somebody who could spray these products for you? I see that some of their clear coats are spray only.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

I don't know what brands I can get around here, I just ran across Hydrocote from a Google search. I'll write down the brands you mentioned and will look for 'em when I go to get the plywood next week.

As far as knowing someone to spray it for me; yeah, I could get the cabinet shop guy I know to do it but I don't like bothering people. I even hate having to ask ya'll so many questions 'cause I feel like such a pest. I'm a firm believer in "think twice, do once." The more time spent in research usually means less time & hassles in production and quality results. I'll try to find something I could apply myself.

Don't waste your time looking for a local distributor for me, I can do that. That's my job. You've done more than enough, already.

Well, on second thought, will you go ahead and purchase everything I need, build it and then I'll come pick it up? I'll give you a couple of dollars for your labor as well as material reimbursement. Wou;d $20 be enough? LOL!!! Wow, I just had this wonderful dream that Chris built me a beautiful cage and gave me it to me. Heeheehee!!!

Should I seal the wood prior to clear coating or get a coating that does both?

I still intend to use extra protection for floor & lower wall portions. I've thought about epoxies or resins but don't want to fool with the mess, plus, the yellowing with age was another concern.

Thanks, sport!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

These are not likely products you'll find at your local hardware store. You may find them at flooring specialty stores or possibly woodworking stores. In most cases you have to order them.

I did look up Hydrocote a bit and found mixed reviews. I'm not sure I'd use them over the Varathane products you can get locally.

Should I seal the wood prior to clear coating or get a coating that does both?

Most any waterborne finish can also function as a se

aler when it's first coat is applied. In some cases this raises the grain a bit more than a sealer but you can always sand that down.

If you use oak plywood I would practice on several scrap pieces.

If you do end up putting something durable on the first few inches of the cage floor the clear coat you use on the rest of the walls does not matter nearly as much.

One concern I have with your project is what to do with the exposed edges of plywood where the two cage halves meet. This will be the most susceptible area to damage.

If you go with wilsonart I'd probably use contact cement to cover these edges.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

"One concern I have with your project is what to do with the exposed edges of plywood where the two cage halves meet. This will be the most susceptible area to damage."

Yeah, my concern, as well. I was planning on coating all edges prior to assembly and where the 2 carcass halves will join I was thinking of butting plywood edges with oak 1x2 or 2x2 (coated, too). I've got plenty of 1x12 oak boards laying around.

I dug out some balsa scraps I use for my R/C airplanes and I'm going to sit down this weekend and build a scale model of the cage to see how I can lessen potential weak points, ie; joints, as well as come up with the most efficient assemblying process of the the halves.

I've pretty much decided that the face of the cage will be in one piece, assembled after the 2 halves are assembled, thereby making it 3 pieces instead of 2. This eliminates an unsightly face joint. That would leave the back wall and floor with the only joints, other than the corners.

Thanks, Chris!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.