Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, I want to know everyones opinions on Giants. I posted a couple of weeks ago asking about Giants. Well this evening I was looking on the classifieds, and found something confusing. I found an ad for "Super Giants". The listing included a pair of "Super Giant" Leos. They were listed as 2 Year Olds, and 80 and 90 grams. Now from what I was understanding from my earlier post, Giants are around 100-110 grams at average adult size, and Supers are around 150+ at adult size. Now am I correct in this idea? Or am I incorrect? I am still new to the Leo game, so I can use all the help I can get.

Currently I have this female below that is somewhere around a year old and about 80 grams, and right at 10 inches long. Is that Giant Status? Here is a pic of her. She is the top Leo. Also, what would you guys and gals consider the morph of these two?

Then I also recently got this 18 Month Old Male Dark Patternless Leo. He is a little over 105 grams or so. Is he considered a Giant? Here is a photo, not a very good one, but the only one I have at the moment. He is the Dark Patternless to the left. Also, any opinions on the morphs of these guys would be helpful.

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Thanks,
Jamie and Kayce
cantilxcotton@yahoo.com

1.0 Dark Patternless Leopard Gecko(Giant?)-(Jax)
0.1 Yellow Patternless Leopard Gecko
0.2 Albino Leopard Geckos
1.0 Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko-(Cryp)
0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 80% Black Normal Leopard Gecko
0.1 Chocolate Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 High Yellow Leopard Gecko-(Oats)
1.0 High Yellow Leopard Gecko-(Wyatt)
0.1 Mack Snow Leopard Gecko-(Potion)
0.1 Ghost Leopard Gecko-(Coffin)
0.0.1 Pastel Leopard Gecko-(Lemon)
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko-(Kist)
0.1 Bell Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 High Yellow Leopard Gecko
1.0 Harlequin Dalmation Crested Gecko-(Dali)
1.0 Southern Painted Turtle-(Bat)
0.1 Eastern Cottonmouth-(Fat @$$)
0.2 House Cats-(Cali & Lilly)
0.1 Ausie Shepard-(Jackie)
1.0 Bully Boxer-(River)

Giant is a inheritable c-dominate trait, just cause a leos is within the listed size doesn't make it a giant, it has to orginate from Ron's line of giants.

Straight from Ron Trempers site

Male Super Giants here often reach 110 grams in 12 months. The largest Tremper Super Giant, named Moose, weighed 140 grams at one year of age with his greatest weight now being 156 grams. What we're offering is a genetic giant and just how big they may get will vary from person to person, but expect our Giant males to be 90-110 grams and the Super Giant males to exceed 110 grams. One of Moose's sons, "A-Fei" (means "Fat Boy", in Taiwan has hit 168 grams at 18 months of age. I feel that someone will have a 200 gram Tremper Super Giant one day.

So, technically speaking, if I can't prove that these are from Ron's Line(which I can't), then that would mean that I could start my own Giant Line. *If it proves to pass on*. Which I do believe to be the case with my Leo Female.
-----
Thanks,
Jamie and Kayce
cantilxcotton@yahoo.com

1.0 Dark Patternless Leopard Gecko(Giant?)-(Jax)
0.1 Yellow Patternless Leopard Gecko
0.2 Albino Leopard Geckos
1.0 Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko-(Cryp)
0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 80% Black Normal Leopard Gecko
0.1 Chocolate Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 High Yellow Leopard Gecko-(Oats)
1.0 High Yellow Leopard Gecko-(Wyatt)
0.1 Mack Snow Leopard Gecko-(Potion)
0.1 Ghost Leopard Gecko-(Coffin)
0.0.1 Pastel Leopard Gecko-(Lemon)
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko-(Kist)
0.1 Bell Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 High Yellow Leopard Gecko
1.0 Harlequin Dalmation Crested Gecko-(Dali)
1.0 Southern Painted Turtle-(Bat)
0.1 Eastern Cottonmouth-(Fat @$$)
0.2 House Cats-(Cali & Lilly)
0.1 Ausie Shepard-(Jackie)
1.0 Bully Boxer-(River)

The giant line ios a proven co-dominate morph, the Super form is expectional large animals. These hatch out longer and more lanky than typical leos with long torso and exceptionally long tails. Babies are known to hatch at 5-6 grams while normal hatchling are typically only 3-4 grams. To say you can produce your own is like saying you've found a new morph. A larger than normal non giant leo will likely produce large offspring yet they are still just normals. I have seen 120 gram normals...
Xavier

while a very large normal will top out at about 10'' Giants commonly reach 11.5''

Ok, before I start, please don't take this as sarcasim, or me trying to be a smart@$$. But I'm confused. With what you say, it's a proven trait. So why wouldn't it be proven if I hatch them out? How come a 120 gram normal is just that, normal, if she can hatch out a larger gecko and a normal gecko when breed to a smaller one than her. And that larger baby grows to be 100-120 grams, in my mind it only makes sense that that is genetic. Which is exactly what my female did when I breed her to a Normal Male. So, for what I see that means that that is "Proving it out". That is exactly what Ron did. You were talking about tails, my Female, she is 92 grams and around 10.25 inches. She is constantly growning. She isn't fat either. Everytime she thickings up, she just grows a bit longer and thins back out.

But basically, how is it that my Female is not a Giant if she is the same size and growth rate as Ron's, and produces just as Ron's do.
-----
Thanks,
Jamie and Kayce
cantilxcotton@yahoo.com

1.0 Dark Patternless Leopard Gecko(Giant?)-(Jax)
0.1 Yellow Patternless Leopard Gecko
0.2 Albino Leopard Geckos
1.0 Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko-(Cryp)
0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 80% Black Normal Leopard Gecko
0.1 Chocolate Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 High Yellow Leopard Gecko-(Oats)
1.0 High Yellow Leopard Gecko-(Wyatt)
0.1 Mack Snow Leopard Gecko-(Potion)
0.1 Ghost Leopard Gecko-(Coffin)
0.0.1 Pastel Leopard Gecko-(Lemon)
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko-(Kist)
0.1 Bell Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 High Yellow Leopard Gecko
1.0 Harlequin Dalmation Crested Gecko-(Dali)
1.0 Southern Painted Turtle-(Bat)
0.1 Eastern Cottonmouth-(Fat @$$)
0.2 House Cats-(Cali & Lilly)
0.1 Ausie Shepard-(Jackie)
1.0 Bully Boxer-(River)

Proven meaning people have breed them for several years to determine what trait it truely is, orginally Ron sold them as a simple recessive trait it wasn't till after a few years and much input from other breeders that it was found to be a co-dominate trait. For one your group is too small, one can't just breed a small group and say its a proven trait. It takes generations and large numbers 100 plus. Small groups aren't enough. I do feel I'm the best to say it. But just cause you breed a large animal once and she produce larger than average babies doens't mean you have proven her to be a giant. Heck mayeb she is from ron's giant line its very possible but to say that she is or even a new giant based on what you've bred her to is misleading to furture buyers. You might want to check out geckoforums.net where they ahve several breeders with 5-10 plus years of expereince.