Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am in the middle of my project and I still have a few questions. Im building a 6'x3'x3' plywood cage framed with 2x4s with plexi sliding doors in front and two plexi windows on the sides. The rest is plywood with several coats of a urathane sealer and plastic flooring.
I want to use two hide boxes one of which I want to double as a basking shelf. Im going to use a deep substrate and some logs and branches. I want to use a floor register vent on the cool end so that I can regulate the air flow and humidity by tinkering with the open/closed position. I planned on placing a large bathing pool near the halogen heat source to help create the humidity.

My questions are:
First does all of this sound ok? Also what wattage bulb should I start with? What is the difference if the light is mounted inside or outside the box via a dome fixture? I cant find a suitable recepticle for a floodlight. Are there additional heating options i.e. the under tank heating pad that I currently use in his 75 gal tank? I really dont want to add anything at this point. Also I intend to use a 24/7 cycle since I figure the cage is big enough for him to figure out his own cycle but Im not sure whather or not I need a thermostat. All that I currently use is a red 100w bulb that stays on all of the time and a clear 50x that shuts off at night.

I know some of these questions are probably stupid but Id rather know now than after Ive got the thing put together.

Thanks for the help

I hope you have posted this on the monitor forum, despite its hostile enviroment there are a few people that are extreamly knowledgable and more than willing to help. With that said FR knows his stuff but is a little rough along the edges, being that I havn't seen you handle before I though to offer this as fair warning.

I digress you didn't come to hear a discussion about another forum. So to the point I think your cage is exactly that a cage and since I have no Mangrove specific information I will leave that well enough alone. Material wise I think a monitor and wood don't typically get along, I do know mangrove's and monitors in general have sharp claws.

I think wood even if treated with poly will not hold up to persistant scratching. Nor will standard plastic or plexy for that matter.

I don't know how much of the enclosure you have built but IMO I think FRP despite its apearance is a good product that will hold up to the abuse. Plexy scratches really easy and tends to be flexable, I think laminated glass would be a safer longer lasting product, despite its additional cost.

For display purchases wood makes an attractive cage and can be made to work. FRP can be used to line the interior and in the enclosure of a monitor that may not scratch persistantly at the cage walls, would be a good floor lining under the substrate.

I have done a lot of research on Tree monitors and Acanthurus monitors both of which I intend to someday get into. If mangroves are anything like either of those, hiding spaces are a neccesity. The entire back of the cage can be lined with cork panels, and hollow logs as well as using muiltiple hide boxs. This will give cover and dark hid spaces accross the entire length of cage, if you use a horizontal thermal gradient this will be a really good idea.

I also agree with you use of a vent to regulate airflow. With ventelation towards the cool side of the enclosure, thermodynamics will take care of airflow and you heat gradient.

Down to heating You will probally need to test a variety of bulbs since UVR is a flip flopping issue with monitors. Flood lights tend to be the bulb of choice but incandesants can provide a good heat source as well just depend on the enclosure. Both have a high surface temps so you should protect the animal from direct contact. A typical flood used in monitor cages is the 140W wide angle flood. I would probally start there or maybe a little lower in wattage and see what temps you get on both the hot side (including basking) and cool side. Use a heat gun or infared temp gun (really the same thing) to get your temps. remember that ambient temps within the room itself will have an effect on the inside cage temps. Keep this in mind if experimenting with bulbs outside of the area in which the cage will actually be kept.

The water source placed in close proximity to the heat source is a good idea to increase or decrease humidity. You will natuarally discover by placing the tub of water in different places within the enclosure you will get different humidity levels. Use this to you advantage in giving the humidity you desire. Always keep a watch full eye on this because again the natural humidity of the room will raise or lower the humidity within the cage. This is exspecially important as we change seasons because HVAC changes really effect humidity in our homes.

Hope that answers some of you questions but more than likely it will raise a few more so naturally feel free to ask.

Good Luck

Also I don't recommend belly heat for dirunal or nocturnal (for that matter) lizards.
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
0.0.10 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.2 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Child -coming soon-

I am in the middle of my project and I still have a few questions. Im building a 6'x3'x3' plywood cage framed with 2x4s with plexi sliding doors in front and two plexi windows on the sides. The rest is plywood with several coats of a urathane sealer and plastic flooring.

First does all of this sound ok?

I agree with Jeremy about the polyurethane. I would go back and laminate fiberglass reinforced panel over the interior.

The rest is well outside my area of interest so I'll leave that to others. And I also agree with Jeremy that the monitor forum is a good place to get information on caging.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

I'm just beginning my first cage build for my Burm so I'm not an expert, by far. I just wanted to make sure that you have considered your cage size carefully.

The average interior door opening is 32 inches. You might want to consider lowering the cage height so the cage could fit into any room without having to remove the door frame/casing.

Good luck!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

THanks for the responses to my post. They are greatly appreciated and helpful. I designed the cage so that it could be taken apart and put back together. That is why Im framing it in 2x4s. I can use screws to assemble it. I plan to build a larger one when he gets a little bigger. He is only about 8mo old now. I will be moving in about 6 months too so being able to take it apart was a pretty important part of the decision process.

Thinking back on it I probably would have gone with the melamine but my thinking at the time was that the cage wouldnt be the last cage I would build for him. He is still pretty small. If I use the right sealant it should be fine i think? I really would be intersted in ideas for sealant.

Thanks again.

As I said earlier, I'm about to start on my first cage build but it's for a snake, which doesn't dig like a monitor. However, I am planning on building a cage for my juvenile Nile within a few months. At the risk of looking really stupid, I'll try to help. This won't take long because I don't know anything.

Thinking back on my cage material research, about the only things that I've seen so far that I would use would be ceramic tile, formica or maybe even Wilsonart. I don't know how well any of these would hold up, except for the tile. I'm sure it would. If I used tile I would use the 4in. tile with tile mastic. The tile mastic (glue) will also act as a moisture barrier and it can be scraped or sanded off of wood with little damage to the wood should you ever need to replace it.

However, I don't think under tank heating would work well with tile. The Wilsonart is only about 1/8" - 3/16" thick and seemed pretty durable. You might could even use a thin sheet of aluminum.

Are you going to use plywood for the subfloor and make it so you can replace the protective layer if/when it needs it?

Since you're making the cage in halves you could make it to where you can always add another mid-section to it as needed.

Don't put too much stock in what I say. I'm just throwing some ideas out there trying to help. I'd go to where the experience is. If I were you I'd do what bighurt suggested & make a thread in the monitor section of the forums. That's where you're going to get the tried & true advice. I'm curious to find out what they say, myself.

Best wishes, sport!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

I really would be intersted in ideas for sealant.

Sealing a wooden cage for a monitor is a difficult thing to deal with. Polyester resin is a popular choice on the monitor forum. In fact there have been some great threads over on that forum dealing with this specific topic. If you dig through the archives you might be able to find some useful information.

Short of polyester resin for fiberglassing, there really is not "over the counter" sealant that I would recommend for a species like a Mangrove Monitor which can not only scratch but also needs a deep substrate and higher humidity requirements.

Assuming you want a clear coat to show off wood grain, I would not use standard automotive polyester resin. It has poor clarity to begin with and also tends to yellow and develop micro-cracks that lead to a hazed look. There are more expensive polyester resins that are more clear and more flexible for the type of project you have. Not the easiest things to find, however.

With all that said, FRP like Jeremy recommended is popular with monitor keepers for good reason. None of the issues of dealing with polyester resin and you only have to make sure the corners stay sealed.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

Tell me more of this polyester resin. Fumes? Dangerous? Curing time? I want something durable but I also want to be able to tear this thing down and put it back together in a few months. Clear is not a necessity only a preference. If there were some kickass something out there that was some sort of color but would work better I would be ok with that. FRP? I have already purchased the plywood which was not inexpensive. I have already applied one coat of sealer (Helmsman I think was the brand urathane of some sort). But I only applied it to one side so if need be that could be the outside and I could still seal the inside with whatever is best.

Thanks

First, I think the long-term purpose of this cage is important for us to understand. You mentioned that this is a temporary cage.

1) How long do you forsee keeping a monitor in the cage?

2) What will it house next?

The above information will help me a lot when it comes to making a recommendation. I'm going to deal with the rest of your questions in reverse.

I have already applied one coat of sealer (Helmsman I think was the brand urathane of some sort). But I only applied it to one side so if need be that could be the outside and I could still seal the inside with whatever is best.

I do not like the use of Helmsman Spar Urethane in reptile enclosures. First, it is designed to be highly flexible and resistant to UV light, both properties which will mean a LESS water resistant product comapred to regular polyurethane. Also, due to some unique properties of the product you used it can take years to offgass completely. This can be made worse if it's use on the interior of your cabinet, like in your reptile cage.

Lastly, I don't know how well polyester resins will stick to it if you do decide to go that route. Different clear coats don't always like to "work" together. The last thing you want is to apply a coat of polyester resin and find it peeling off.

FRP? I have already purchased the plywood which was not inexpensive.

I can understand your concern, especially if this is only a temporary cage. Are you really wanting the clear coat look on the inside? But FRP is hard to beat for a monitor, that's for sure. Not the most attractive stuff. I hate the way it looks to be honest.

Also, you'll waste a lot of FRP with the dimenions you listed. I'm sure you already noticed that with your plywood. You could have built a cage with a very similar volume and probably used one or two fewer sheets of ply. But maybe you had a reason.

Tell me more of this polyester resin. Fumes? Dangerous? Curing time?

There are different types of polyester resins and different types and ratios of activators so the above are hard to answer. I would definately plan on the use of a respirator at a minimum.

They are completely safe once cured, although that can take a while. One issue with polyester resins is that they don't lend themselves well to repair. It is hard to get another coat to stick after the product is fully cured. That is why multiple coats are applied on a certain schedule - it allows the coats to "burn in" to the previous layer. Wait to long and subsequent coats don't adhere well.

I want something durable but I also want to be able to tear this thing down and put it back together in a few months. Clear is not a necessity only a preference.

Then you would seal the individual panels before putting the cage together. If you sealed the already-assembled-cage the sealer would act as an adhesive on the joints and you'd be stuck with things for a while.

For something with color, I'd vote for FRP.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

I plan to keep the cage for at least two years and I dont forsee it housing anything else at my house. I plan to sell the enclosure to offset some of the cost of building the other enclosure. The enclosure he is currently in has already been sold. This new one really only cost me a little over $1oo.

Well this is a unique situation and I'm not sure what to recommend. Certainly a sealer of some sort will end up being cheaper than FRP, unless you have a use for the scrap pieces.

I also wonder if some scrap linoleum would work. It's fairly scratch resistant and can be had super cheap - look for returned sections at Home Depot, Lowes, etc. Definately avoid the type that lays flat without glue. It's a nice product but softer than standard linoleum. And you can likely get it in some multiple of 3 feet which should mean less waste.

Otherwise, maybe look at Marine stores for a clear epoxy or polyester resin, although then you have to deal with offgassing, solvents, etc.

Bondo also makes a clear epoxy that can be found at placed like Home Depot. I have never seen it but others have found it in their area.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

Yes I did have a lot of unused wood but initially the enclosure was going to be bigger. I was prepared to spend this much and I wasnt willing to go any smaller. With that extra height and width he will be able to climb which he seems to enjoy and he will have more choices as far as temperature regulation.

How much substrate are you using?

What temps are you looking at, I know before on the monitor forum you mentioned 95' as a high which is much to low.
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
0.0.10 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.2 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Child -coming soon-