Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been thinking about possibly getting a snake for the past month or so

From what ive read the only reasons that burms are illadvised for beginers is because of size, cost to house/feed.

So if I'm prepared for both. the best I can be having not really had snakes before. Is there possibly anything I'm over looking?

I'm not very interested in ball pythons mainly because the morphs i really like are VERY expensive but i really like the normal burms.

Dont plan on buying one anytime soon. Just decided to ask some questions and such about it first after reading up some.

You might be fine until the snake gets big. Handling a 100 pound snake is very different from handling a 3 foot baby. You have to consider that with any snake over 10 feet it is mandatory to have at least one other able bodied person at your side when you do anything with the snake. Also if you have never had a pet snake you might not pick up on the subtle body language a snake uses to tell you "leave me alone". When the snake is as large as a adult burm that can be a real bad mistake. There are many more sutible choices for a beginner snake than a burm if you don't like balls. Rainbow boas are very pretty and don't get big, childrens pythons are great, rosy boas are very nice too. If you are not set on a python or boa, kingsnakes, milksnakes, and cornsnakes come in a huge range of colors and are generally very docile. Hope that helps a little.

How much experiance is enough experiance to start keeping large snakes?

There arent many snakes that i have seen intrest me like burms and retics do.

That's a question that is difficult to answer because everyone is different in terms of maturity, ability, knowledge, experience, resources, physical abilities, etc. The previous post gave some excellent advice and I would do some more research on small but "big" constrictors that will give you the feel of a big burm but something that one person can easily manage. Honestly, as much as I love burms and love working with them, they do not make good pets for most people (I would even venture to say that 99% of people wishing to get a burm, shouldn't). Our facility has taken in 100's of unwanted burms over the past few years alone; and, most are from well intentioned people that just got in over their head.

So, in addition to the snakes already listed, here are some other ULTRA COOL BIG SNAKES that one person can manage:
- Borneo short tailed python/Red Blood Python - you will get all of the feel and beauty of a burm (even girth) but in a snake that rarely gets over 8'
- Olive Python - these snakes can reach 12' and are amazingly docile. One of the hottest snakes around in terms of personality, looks, and size
- Boa constrictor: many morphs but you still can't beat a good old fashioned Boa c. constrictor/imperator
- Coastal Carpet Python - largest of the carpets, they can reach 12' and develop a head like a rottweiler; really cool animal that will tame down nicely if handled.
Those are just a few. I would encourage you to look at other options; you won't be disappointed.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>How much experiance is enough experiance to start keeping large snakes?
>>
>>There arent many snakes that i have seen intrest me like burms and retics do.
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

definitly try something a little smaller first for about a year or so. See what it is like to have a smaller snake strike at you or bite you. I have been bitten by numerous colubrids and all though they don't hurt much they do bleed. Now imagine that you are not all that experienced with handling herps and don't notice the warnings of a 100lb burmese and BANG!! He nails you. We are talking about possibly several stitches, a very painful experience and yet another big boid that may need a new home. Don't get me wrong, I have kept these big guys and my favorite all time snake based on "personality" was a burm I owned almost 10 yrs. ago. I'd say start with a common boa, I have two and can't seem to get enough of them. Mine are gentle and get to an impressive size but not so big that I can't manage them even though they would be quite a hand full as well should they get nasty. After a year of succesfully keeping a boa happy and healthy with no scars to show for it then consider the gentle giant burmese.

I'm definetly not afraid of being bit by a large snake and wouldnt hold it against the snake at all.

Thanks alot for the advice. I think I'm going to go with an albino boa. they have that beautiful pink color to them which was very good looking.

It's about danger, and being able to handle such a dangerous situation as being bitten by a very large snake. A defensive bite is one thing, as defensive bites usually only last a moment and may cause severe damage to the skin/tissue of the inflicted area. With most burms attacks, however, are the result of a feeding response.

It's very difficult for a beginner to recognize when a burm is about to strike at a supposed food source. Being ambush predators, they typically stay relatively still until the prey is within range. Any number of things can set off a feeding response, even if it's just something as seeminly insignificant as seeing part of a warm body.

If you are bitten by a burm that has attacked you thinking you are a food source, you may have coils around you before you don't even know what happened. A large snake is stronger than you, no matter who you are. They have the ability to kill you in minutes. If you're in this situation and either don't know how to deal with it or are too frightened to, you could very well lose your life. This is also why it's very important to have another person in the room who is EXPERIENCED WITH HANDLING LARGE SNAKES. The fear of seeing someone attacked by a large snake, or a general lack of knowledge on the part of the partner could mean the difference between life and death.

As you can see, this isn't about being afraid of the animal. This is about realizing that the reptile has the potential to take your life, and knowing that every time you work with the snake it could very well be the day that you are put into this kind of situation, so you need to know how to resolve it.

I accually saw a program on national geographic not too long about about this exact thing. How to get away from a large constrictor if attacked. It had a few attack stories and how the peopel got away.

I believe the 3 ways was warm to hot water from a hose or possibly shower... not sure how that works but supose to make the snake release its coils, viniger or a high proof alcohol and pour it into the snakes mouth possibly eyes as well, and the extreme but possibly nessassary killing the snake.

Should have make it clearer... not afriad of the bite... but definetly the coils. I could always have someone around that i will explain what we are going to do before we even start

It's definitely not about being afraid,it's all about knowing what to do "in case".I have been in this exact scenario myself,and I am a big boy and have handled myself on several occasions.In this occasion however,if I had not kept my wits about me,it would not have turned out well FOR ME.This was way back when my Burm was only 7 feet.She coiled around my leg and I'm gonna tell you what,I've never had a truck parked on my leg,but I'm pretty sure that's what it must feel like.I DO NOT want to experience that EVER again.It's just one thing to consider,not trying to talk you out of it,just trying to make sure you've considered all the angles.

It has DEFINETLY been considered. It would be pretty stupid to assume it would never happen.

Are the two things I said about the warm to hot water and vinigar/alcohol good ways to get the snake off of you?

Any other good advice for that? Peeling the snake off might just end up in injuring it or me more than nessassary.

You dont have an option of just simply "peeling the snake off". They are MUCH stronger than you. If a burm gets you in a full feeding response, the likelihood on you being able to remove the snake by yourself is near impossible. Even if you have a friend to help you try to remove the snake, it is going to be really hard. You CAN spray vinegar into the mouth of the snake to make it release it's hold. However, you dont want to grasp the snake too firmly around the back of the head when removing it or you will simply make it squeeze tighter.

Hope this helps.

Chris

>>Any other good advice for that? Peeling the snake off might just end up in injuring it or me more than nessassary.
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My Website
www.herpfanatic.com

I meant to get the snakes mouth off.

I wouldnt do anything with a large snake by myself so I would always have someone to help.

I don't know about warm water, but snakes have an extreme aversion to strong drinking alcohol, most will release their jaws as well as coils if it is sprayed or dribbled in their mouth...just be sure not to flood the windpipe tube! I would advise prevention above all else; I currently own a 9 foot female burmese and in the past worked with a 7 foot yellow anaconda. Both of these snakes displayed terrifying feeding responses. I feed my burmese through a small 'rabbit door', never the main door. I chose to go the way of hook training(touching the snake on the head with a hook before handling), I also put an old sweaty shirt from my laundry on the end of the hook so they could smell 'me' before I actually put my arm in. With the burmese, even after the sweaty shirt hook, I made a shield (a sheet of thick acrylic with a handle affixed in the middle)to keep in front of her head when I reach in with the other hand to pull her out, just as an added protection should she become startled and take a shot at me. And if you like the 'look' of a burmese, consider a male, they grow a bit smaller and will weigh less than a female of the same length. Good luck and really nice to see you are doing research first.

I agree with the other posters. Burms simply do not make good pets for most people due to their tremendous size. Retics are even worse. Bigger and more unpredictable.

As other poster said there are other species that get big but not quite as cumbersome as a full grown burm. Even a common red tailed boa would be a better choice. Plus the growth rate of a boa is much slower.

Personally I like your idea about a ball python. They are awesome and will give experisnce handling boids. And while they arent a giant snake they certainly arent tiny. You mentioned the morphs but MHO a quality normal adult ball is a handsome animal.

If you still really want the burm Ill give you the same advice Ive given to dozens of people over the last 20 years.

If you're really serious then you need to have the cage ready for the burm when it gets big as they grow very rapidly. The cage will need to be a MINIMUM of 8' long by 4' deep by 3-4' high. And thats the bare minimum, a bigger enclosure would be better. If you wish to purchase a cage this size be prepared to spend quite a bit of money. If you wish to build one you can save some money but it has to be properly constructed. And whatever cage you use it has to be secure enough to keep a huge, insanely strong animal captive. Then you will need to decide how you will heat the animal. Again, there arent that many comercially available products designed to heat a cage that large. So again be prepared to drop some serious coin or construct something of your own. Either several spotlights or some type of large undertank heating system or both. Then he will need a hide and suitable water source. Also take into account how you will handle the snake. Side access is better than top since dragging a giant snake through the top of a cage isnt fun. But with a sliding door you are coming right at him so if hes in a bad mood you are in perfect striking range so be careful. Then there's food. Are you prepared to feed the snake several jumbo rats or rabbits every month? Do you have a freezer to store frozen prey? If not can you handle killing rats and rabbits to feed to your snake or do you know a local supplier who will sell you freshly killed prey?

Once you have the cage all set up and everything seems to be working propery and is in order then go ahead and get your snake. If you're not willing to do that than Im sorry but you're not ready to own a giant snake. Period.

Getting a baby burm and sticking it in a 20 gallon long with absolutely no idea what you will do with it when its 8' or larger is irresponsible.

P.S.: So far no one that I offered this advice to has gone out and got the cage. They usually wind up with a corn snake. Good choice.

"If you're really serious then you need to have the cage ready for the burm when it gets big as they grow very rapidly. The cage will need to be a MINIMUM of 8' long by 4' deep by 3-4' high. And thats the bare minimum, a bigger enclosure would be better. If you wish to purchase a cage this size be prepared to spend quite a bit of money. If you wish to build one you can save some money but it has to be properly constructed. And whatever cage you use it has to be secure enough to keep a huge, insanely strong animal captive. "

Thats exactly waht I was going to get before I even considered on trying to find a snake to buy.

"Then you will need to decide how you will heat the animal. Again, there arent that many comercially available products designed to heat a cage that large. So again be prepared to drop some serious coin or construct something of your own. Either several spotlights or some type of large undertank heating system or both. "

Thats something I might have trouble with trying to find the right heating supplys but shouldnt be too hard asking around and getting it all set up to stay at a good temp before I got the snake

"Then he will need a hide and suitable water source."

Some cages I see with snakes that are rather large dont seem to have hide boxes in it. I was thinking of adding extra space on the side of the cage with no windows or one possibly one on a door there but that will be covered most of the time to give it a built in hide box.

"Also take into account how you will handle the snake. Side access is better than top since dragging a giant snake through the top of a cage isnt fun. But with a sliding door you are coming right at him so if hes in a bad mood you are in perfect striking range so be careful. "
I can always have someone here to assist me with taking it out and pretty much anything that involves opening the cage.

"Then there's food. Are you prepared to feed the snake several jumbo rats or rabbits every month?"
Very much... one of the reasons I'm considering getting a snake.

"Do you have a freezer to store frozen prey?"
2 big freezers with plenty of room

"If not can you handle killing rats and rabbits to feed to your snake or do you know a local supplier who will sell you freshly killed prey?"
I was thinking about using freshly killed over frozen when I could.

"Once you have the cage all set up and everything seems to be working propery and is in order then go ahead and get your snake. If you're not willing to do that than Im sorry but you're not ready to own a giant snake. Period."

I'm very willing to do all of that... but from what it seems I should probly get some experience with a smaller snake first. Which I havent really seen many that appeal to me as much as the burmese but if its the best advice I supose I could suck it up and get one. =P

I dont plan on getting a corn snake but most likely a boa I've seen a few that I like and they get to a pretty decent size which I like.

Cant remember if I've read about "dwarf" burmese pythons that dont quite get AS big but mainly stay around 10~ feet or that might just be retics.

If there are dwarf burms would that be a reasonable option? Or should I just go for the boa?

I give you props. You are planning ahead and sound like you are willing to provide for the animal.

It is still probably a good idea to start with something a bit smaller just to a little experience. A boa would be a good choice. If your heart is set on a burmese you can also get one down the road a bit if all goes well with the boa. If you have the room having two snakes is not much more difficult or time consuming than having one.

I know nothing about dwarf burmese so Ill let someone else handle that one.

I could probly build two cages at once that can be stacked and just put one up in storage for a while till I decide to get a burmese after having the boa for a while.

Now there's a man after my own heart!

Uh oh...we are already stacking cages! Let me look into my crystal ball....

I see a reptile room in your future!

All kidding aside if you do plan on aquiring more animals building several cages at one time is easier than building as you go. Since you can get all the material you will need take the tools out and have at it. A capital idea.

Sounds like you're ready for a smaller boid at the moment. That's kind of the way I was thinking when I got my ball python. I figured I'd start with the little guy, and if I still felt the need to get a burmese, I could work on that once I move out.

To be honest though, my ball python is great, and I don't see myself getting another snake anywhere in the future. He is such a fantastic animal with such interesting behaviors and beautiful patterns. Before I got him I had planned on getting a red-tailed boa in the future, maybe a blood python, and eventually a burmese. I just don't feel the need anymore though.

Just another thing to think about. Starting with a boa, ball, blood, etc. might end up actually satisfying your desire for a large snake. They are smaller, so they are easier to house and cheaper to feed.

Conversly, I'm interested in tortoises mainly right now. I decided to start with russian tortoises and try breeding them, and eventually raising other species of tortoises (leopard, red-footed, maybe eventually a sulcata). This is actually an idea that I haven't abandoned, and it's for different reasons. The russians are great pets, but what I learned from them is that it's so rewarding and satisfying watching them grow up. I would still love to raise a larger tortoise and I plan to.

So all in all, I support the idea of starting with something smaller, because it will definately help you decide if going the next step is the right idea for you.

THere is dwarf Burmese. They are from a specific locale and are still relatively limited in availability. Now whether they would be a good snake to start with, I honatly do not know. The few people that are breeding these guys are stating they are breeding females at 7-8' instead of 12 '. They said the exact same thing about Jampea Dwarf Retics. The big breeders stated that they would stay under 10' but things are much different in a captive setting then in the wild. With a steady supply of water and food and the proper conditions Jamps have thrived. Yes they do remain smaller then normal retics, but they have been known to get over 15' on occassion. 15' is much different then 10'.
I have a few questions If I may ask. How old are you and where do you live. Do you own a house or do you rent. Does the town, county, and state allow snakes. Hope this helps, Todd