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I have been doing some reading....and I think I am getting some better understanding of the T positive....

It would appear that the T positive boa is the Sharp strain albino.....What does everyone say about that?

That really seams to be the only boa so far that does indeed fit the description....

It is good to have the Paradigm name...because that will differentiate the 2....but what about what we already know to be called the T positive....?

Andy
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second, I could convince myself to believe you have any clue what you are talking about, the T positive would probably be considered a hypomelanistic trait.
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Chris & Alliey
www.bloodyleopard.com
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The Sharp strain boa as we know it....seems to be the only real T positive....being that it fits the true genetic characteristics of what a T positive truly is....The Kahl strain being a T negative....and the Sharp strain being UN- Compatable with that strain seems to even more prove this...

I would love to hear more of what you think?

Thanks Andy
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Andy where did you find this description and can you share it with us? That way we can all be on the same page. Its hard to have a discussion when you don't have the information being discussed. Thanks Vinnie

Hello Vinnie, I have never claimed to be a know it all...and on these forums, I mainly ask questions......I also am man enough to admit if i am wrong about something, and I take no offense to anyone opposing any of my views....

I just have read this forum and others and have...ideas...questions...and just think that if we are ever going to go anywhere in boas...breaking new ground is the answer...

Below is just some info that leads me to believe this...but as you will see without a DOPA test...it is impossible to know this for sure..but in my understanding just the fact that the Kahl and Sharp strain are incompatable...leads me to believe this.

Then another statement that I read says that there can be as many as 12 genes resonsible for formation of Melanin...

...here

The differentiation of melanophores and the formation of melanin may be controlled by at least 12 genes. However, genetic analyses of these color genes have not yet been completed.

Think about that in terms of the T positive morphs we already have... and Caramels, and Paradigm...All can, and maybe have this Sharp strain gene...which could be what was found with the Paradigms....but if it could be that 12 other genes could control or influence this...we may see many different morphs come from this....

http://www.bio.nagoya-u.ac.jp:8000/melanin.html

here is just a small exerpt from this...

The colorless melanophore remains in the state of incomplete pigmentation. The possible explanation of this feature are as follows; (1) colorless melanophores are deficient in substrate (tyrosine), (2) they contain an inactive enzyme precursor, (3) in these cells, intermediate products in the processes of the formation of melanin are carried off to other metabolic pathways. It is difficult to analyze the control mechanisms which play a role in skins of the various color types. The activities of dopa oxidase and tyrosinase in the skin are higher in the orange-red and white types than in the brown and gray types. This fact is quite contrary to the first expectation. The results indicate that the activity of tyrosinase is very low when melanin is fully formed, and the action of gene B is restricted only to the stage during the time of formation of melanin. As granules having tyrosinase activity become more fully melanized, perhaps tanning in a chemical sense occurs. Some of active sites on the enzyme may be blocked so that apparent activity of the enzyme is no longer noticed in more fully melanized melanophores

Thanks Andy Federico
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Hey Andy I wasn't trying to argue at all I am very intrested in this as well and just wanted to read the same information you read to lead you to you opinion. Thanks Vinnie

before. It had to do with the DOPA test done on two Rat Snake Albinos that I have referenced recently.

It is interesting.

One question though. What characteristics make you think that the Sharp Albino is T-positive and the Kahl T-negative. Since the release of the Paradigm, a lot of people have thought this, or at least brought it up now when they thought about it before.

I do not think that Kahl and Sharp are the same type of Albino, but I wouldn't be able to put a label to them without tests. Are there specific traits that tell you the Sharp is more likely T-plus?

I just got in and before I read all I missed I figured I would answer you....

One question though. What characteristics make you think that the Sharp Albino is T-positive and the Kahl T-negative. Since the release of the Paradigm, a lot of people have thought this, or at least brought it up now when they thought about it before.

Chris, I am no expert on this matter...so the stuff I say is more the shoot from the hip style....lol

That being said....

Actually the reason why I am thinking this, is simply the way that first it has been shown to not be compatable with Kahl strain...
Then all that I have seen seem to have white saddles....and they seem to intensify white or actually the yellows and Reds...basically brown out.
Kinda like a cut apple wedge if left out...the apple browns out...that is a good way to say it....
The Sharps although I have never owned one....in pics I have seen they look more high contrast and the Kahls just get lighter...sorta the opposite.

Now that they have been bred into the Boa woman hypo and came back out of it as Sharps as we know them...does that not seem to be the true form of the T positive?

So if I am off a little on this go easy on me...lol..

Take care, Andy
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Wow, I take medicine for my back pain, and I am pretty tired...Chris, I just read that again, and it's all jazzed up...wish I could hit delete on that one...LOL>..I'm going to bed! Andy
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As you all can tell, I do not think in the Box....I just Love to think outside the BOX !!

I am just stating ideas here...but I have been concerned with why so little is really known or understood about boa genetics...
It seems people understand Corns, and Balls and other Pythons...but boa people relate all this knowlege in a totally different way.

It gets very confusing....my question is why?

Let me say this this way....

The Boa Morph people....seem to be the ones having trouble here...

Locales specific...are not in question....
but morphs are...
then we seperate locales within morphs??....makes me wonder why....I can't see breeding a Kenyan boa to a Colombian....that just does not make sense....to me...but who knows, maybe I can change.......but why not Centrals to Colombians??
Seems I remember just 4 or 5 years ago lots of boa breeders had trouble with me when I was talking about breeding BCI to BCC I just thought why not...seems it would make the perfect albino.....I never had the boas or the capability...just an open mind and an eagerness to try new things....

seems the best albinos to date have come from those...

I have wondered why boas have not shown us the color morphs as the Ball pythons have...well, it is my speculation that this is why....our inability and unwillingness to try new ideas....

Now we have people breeding balls to bloods and Angolans...and who knows what others...
Morphs are Morphs....NOT Locales!

Seems to me Locale breeders would rather this distinction...as it sets them appart...gives more value and credit to their efforts in this area of their work.

I say breed the Centrals to the Colombians...I think we have some missing links because of it....

I think we are on the verge of some major break-throughs for sure...

I am very greatful for the pioneers who have made all this possible..

Just me sharing my thoughts...Have a great day all...

Take care, Andy Federico
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Andy, sometimes you would be better off keeping some of yout thoughts to yourself. The last two posts clearly show you have no clue what your talking about.

Your a great guy, just kind of wacky lol. no hard feelings!

.. on another shelf.

But on the bright side hes tring to figure it all out
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- Mike Fourquet

Cloaca Herpetoculture
www.CloacaHerps.com

LOL....I hope there are some new and fun things I can learn on this shelf....but

It's really the NEXT shelf I'm looking forward too!

Thanks Andy
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Andy , Life would be so much easier if you would just socially conform.. Interpretation of reality is overrated. I for one chose blissful ignorance. Back in the day when the world was flat and we could all buy cocaine and heroin at the local pharmacy. Ah, now those were the days. So, take a number and get back in the line we call life.

- The caped crusader

Hey Mark, that's cool...just tell me what part of what I said is Whacky? Why is it so? I just love these kind of questions....Thanks Andy
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We don't have the weekly update anymore. It sure would be a bore......you guys are all a bunch of nerds....LOL

understanding. When I go to BP forums and there are pictures of morphs, half of the people who WORK WITH AND BREED Ball Morphs have no idea what makes the combination. Often it is obvious, but you get crazy answers.

Someone on a forum had a Pastel X Pinstripe clutch, one of the Pastel Pins looked like a Super Pastel Pin. Someone asked if the breeder didn't breed a Super Pastel to the Pinstripe. You can't get a Super Pastel by breeding a Super to a non Pastel. This is one of the simplest and oldest BP morphs, and people still don't understand.

I think Boa breeders have the best understanding because of discussions such as those that take place on this forum, a lot of public Q&A. Not to mention all the emails and phone calls that go on about boa morph genetics, I know that triples the conversations I have had on here (for me at least).

I'm giving Andy the "Brass Set" award.. At least he speaks his mind, even though some are less than friendly about what he has to say.

When you quit asking questions you just quit learning.. If you can't explore every angle on a topic there isn't any point in even looking at it, right? Thats what science is about taking something looking at it and then questioning it from all aspects.

Good for you Andy!
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Ed Lilley, www.constrictorsnw.com
www.reptileinsider.com

>It would appear that the T positive boa is the Sharp strain albino.....What does everyone say about that?

If we define a T-positive albino boa as an ALBINO boa that is albino (pink eyes, no melanin in the skin) for a reason other than a defective tyrosinase enzyme, then the Kahl and Sharp albinos are the two best candidates. In my opinion, either one could be T-negative. And the other would be T-positive. Or BOTH could be T-positive. But until a tyrosinase test is done, nobody knows just what the situation actually is.

If we define a T-positive albino as any boa that has melanin but is lighter than normal, then that includes salmon, boawoman hypo, caramel, the boas usually called T-pos albinos, pastel, etc. Horribly confusing!

In my opinion, boa breeders should follow usual genetic practice. That is to assign each mutant gene a UNIQUE NAME. That name should be roughly descriptive of the appearance produced by the gene. If two mutants have less melanin that normal, name one something like pallid and the other one something like reduced. And the next question to ask is not whether reduced and pallid are T-positive. The next question is whether or not reduced and pallid are alleles and share the same location in the genome. The biochemical action of two alleles will be much more similar than that of two independent mutant genes.

The name should not try to predict the biochemistry. The prediction is likely to be wrong from the start. From the little I know, biochemistry is far weirder than nonbiochemists imagine. Let the biochemists tell us what the biochemistry is when they get around to figuring it out.

Paul Hollander

I think more than anything Andy is asking questions, and not making statements about subjects that very few if anyone can answer. Read between the lines here and you will find that Andy is simply trying to figure things out, and maybe help a few others along the way. Paul is right we have a very limited understanding of T 's and T-'s. But thanks to people like Andy we have a few more questions on the table. This is a fascinating discussion.. So lets keep an open mind. I think someone else said "this is the only way to learn".

Chris

"Horribly confusing!" best sums up all the premature guesswork going on these days ... way too much!

I think it best we back off some of the guesswork until there is at least some tangible, factual breeding scenarios from which to build a base to move forward from.

While there continues to be a good number of new morphs entering the market each year, we are still talking "boas", and as such, these selective breeding projects will take years to work out the guesswork.

By the way, on a related but completely different note, I have been very pleased with the constructive exchange of ideas on the forum over the past year. This makes me a lot more receptive to participating in selected discussions.

Bill

I get you man! I don't interact much around here, and one of the reasons is the stiffs! I have posted different ideas here that people don't respond to. Not even to call me crazy!
I've never understood all of the "rules" that people place on breeding Boas. If you want to breed local specific, then go ahead, but don't try to tell folks their wrong for making crosses. What I wonder is why people want to keep things "pure" even though there really is no such thing. The whole "local" thing is an illusion of imagined borders. There is no nobility in supporting that illusion. People used to insist the world was flat.. What are they keeping them "pure" for? If you really want to perform some great service to nature, quit driving your car, buying plastic, living in an ecologically devastating society etc...
Next year I am breeding a Longicauda to a Hypo.. mmwwwaahhaahhaahhaa!!
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Jason Dowell

sounddjinn@yahoo.com

Things always get cloudy, just before transformation.