Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Interesting discussion, thought some of you might enjoy

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1169391,1169391
Link

No more cruel than keeping them in an aquarium IMO.
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John Vandegrift

Snakes want to feel safe and eat and breed. Thats it, they dont like to be held, brushed softly.....throw a ball and they wont go get it! They dont care about you or anything else. THEY WANT TO EAT BREED AND BE IN A SAFE PLACE!!

I completley agree with Gary. Snakes dont NEED affection, they prefer to be by themselves in a dark hide. The more attention you give a snake, the less likley it is to eat consistently. Snakes will sometimes stay with there owners for the reason of body heat, snakes dont greet you at the door or cry everytime you stop petting them, you cant compare snakes to household pets that crave the attention of humans. I trully think snakes do much better in racks. I use to have snakes when i was younger in large spacious cages and now that i look back i laugh. The animals we own today are so much more healthier and happier now that we use racks, they like the dark solitude they provide. A snake that eats is a happy snake, if they werent happy they would most likley go off feed if something in there enviorment was off. Look at where they live in the wild, a rack is the closest thing..
Just my opinion.
Kim and Matt

I believe you are wrong on one point for sure there are some species that you don't handle for obveus resounds and some that don't poetically like it but a lot of them that do and as we are on the Ball forum Ball in particular , once they begin to trust you they will begin to look forward to the interaction I have fond in my 37years of working with herps that the ones that say what you said are the ones that have so many reptiles that it is impossible for them to pay adequate attention to them all so they go on the definitive and make unfounded statements like this one. for every ball you say doesn't like to be held I can show you 20 that do!!!! as for racks they are not cruel snakes like to feel square and Balls like smaller enclosures than a lot of other snakes and as long as you have the right size rack for the occupant they are fine.

David of DS Reptile Rescue , Removal & Rehabilitation

sorry for the spelling I was in a hurry and using the spell check and clicked on the wrong words . thanks .

How do you know they enjoy being held? I think most tolerate being held but to say they look forward to the interaction is a bit of a stretch IMO.
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John Vandegrift

Then why do they come to me when I open there cages and then go back to were I was or when one of my children has one of them and they put it on the bed or floor and they will come to me undirected or aided ? you know I spend at least 75% of my waking hr.s working with my reptiles and with all my experience I believe I know my animals and maybe if you did the same you would see what I am talking about but I don't have so many that I cant devote the proper amount of time per animal that they deserve!! SORRY IF YOU DO NOT AGREE BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO AS LONG AS MY FAMILY AND THE PEOPLE THAT SHARE OUR LIVES AND OUR REPTILE EXPERIENCE DO AND SEE WHAT GOES ON DAY TO DAY!!!!

And how do you know I don't spend time with my animals? I don't hold them all day because reptiles are not for cuddling IMO. Notice I said IN MY OPINION. No reason to go crazy. I believe you are wrong, you believe you are right. It's ok be calm.
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John Vandegrift

Anyone that thinks their snake likes to be held or even likes you has mental problems. Sure you pick a snake up and sometimes they dont try to get away, YOU ARE 98 DEGREES!!! YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A HOT ROCK!!

Why are we even talking about this again??

Snakes see the world alot different than we do! They look at a room thats 75 degrees, see a person on the floor or in a chair that is 98 degrees.....enough said YOU ARE A HOT ROCK....

My snakes come out of the cage too, FOR FOOD!

But whatever, your snake loves you.........get a dog man

Hahaha...... WOW!!! That guy needs to get out a little more.

I think we just need to add a few termites to make them feel @ home! Some live in termite mounds.......
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

Rock on Brotha!

I agree with John and Gary, They tolerate being handled i dont think they enjoy or look foward to it. My dogs look foward to a cookie but i dont think my snakes look foward to a "walk" per say. I have also been working with reptiles for years and years and years. I handle my snakes during cage cleaning and such, when i was younger i use to hold them all day, but i still dont think they enjoy it, some tolerate it .. I actually use to work with alligators for years, and they tend to have a little more "affection" towards their owners. I have seen many and worked with many that are trainable, which in my opinion a snake is not, When you say come they a snake dosent respond if they arent already moving towards you, when you say stay they dont stop what they are doing, they dont beg for food when asked to (i am not including feeding responses into this), i have seen alligators respond to some of these things but never a snake. In my opinion we may love our snakes but i dont think they "love" us back, they tolerate us...lol...
Kim
Sorry for the long post

curious as to what behaviors you've observed with the gators?

sounds cool

We actually worked with two animals for a period of 3 years that became our regulars (there were 14 in total but we only worked day in and out with 2 in particular), they actually do warm up to you, in the begining they were a little "wilder" but as we worked with them they actually got to the point where they were use to the usual routine. I also have had friends that have taught them to "bark" at grills or fridges for food. If any of you ever saw Bubba when he was alive you would see what i mean about some gators. They are kind of like big dogs, some are easier to work with and trian then others. I have lots of stories about working with them, if you ever want to chat email me Exoticreps@aol.com, I actually worked with thousands of exotic reptiles over the years it has been an experience of a life time.
Kim

reading your post on the gaiters !?., sounds a lot like what I was saying .I never compared reptiles and dogs, that was done for me. can't you have compassion for others feelings !!

they don't respond to sound they don't have ears but they can pick up vibrations with there belly's and there are some that still have the remaens of a iner ear.

I was just giving my "scientific" opinion. Thats all. After working hands on and studying gators and snakes for the last 8 years "in my opinion" after years of studies and hard work with these animals i do not beleive that snakes have an emotional connection with there owners, i do not feel that they enjoy being held and played with, i do beleive that they like to be by themselves but will tolerate being handled with time. On the other hand i have seen behaviors in Gators that lead me to beleive that they do posses some type of "attachment". I think they are trainable and the closest thing to owning a dog in the reptile world. Other larger lizards have also shown these qualities such as Iguanas and Tegus and other large species of monitors. That is all i am saying just my opinion on what i have witnissed and worked with first hand. Ii no longer work with Gators since my snakes have taken up all my time. We have many Ball Pythons that i know work with day in and day out, i know my animals like the back of my hand and yes "i love them", but i do not think they share the same feelingd for me .. I fo rthe most part leave them to themselves, i am just happy to see them eating and thriving in a clean enviorment. Then again these are just my opinions and observation

Im glad you love your animals as much as you seem too.. Good luck with them

Kim

Here is cute and cuddly and furry ,and scaly for ya!!!!

AND MORE!!!!

Looks like he likes laying on a nice warm cat to me. Or maybe he's thinking I wish this thing was small enough to fit in my belly.
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John Vandegrift

O please don't tell that the snake loves the cat and the cat loves the snake,thats weird man i would think that cat would try and eat that little ball and when the ball gets older vise versa.I know my snakes don't love me,they don't think like that ,and this is just my HO..heres a cuddly dude

Greg VanZweden

http://www.vanzwedenreptiles.com/

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Forever Trust in what we are,and nothing else Matters