Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So last week I moved a young female from my juvi rack to an adult cage. She is about 28 inches long and had outgrown the tub she was in. She was great for a few days, but since yesterday she has been rubbing and pressing non stop on the front of the cage. She is pushing HARD, after only a day her nose is getting swollen.

I don't know what the heck her problem is. The cage is big, she has several nice big flat hides to get under, temps are 70-90, she has a humidity chamber...Conditions are as good as I know how to get them, and I have many other happy snakes caged the same way. I tried throwing in extra branches/ hides/ and some leaf litter from outside all of which she completely ignored. I taped over the front of the cage so that its not clear and she is still going!

anyone ever had a snake so intent on nose rubbing for no good reason???

IF you want behavioral advice, then put on your behavior thinking cap.

Snakes live by scent. They scent mark their range, their hiding areas, their trails, all things theirs.

They do so to identify what is THEIRS. When switching cages, its only you who have thoughts of this and that, you know, to big, to small, to whatever. You ignore what the snake was thinking. Did it ask to be moved to another cage? by bet is no.

So all you did was take away everything that belonged to that snake. My bet is, its trying to go back to where it was. Back to the area and things that belonged to it(its called being territorial) It wants it territory.

I know, your offering what its going to need. And eventually it will need it. The problem is, the snake does not want what your giving it.

The solution is simple, trick the snake. Snakes are so darn easy to trick. When you moved the snake, if you would have used its old hide, its only substrate, something or everything in its old cage. Then you would not have a problem. I, as a matter of practice, always move something from an old cage to the new cage. I did/do this to prevent a hesitation in growth. It was my experience that when moving snakes to a new cage, you lost a month of growth, even when the snake acted normally and did not protest.

Have you ever noticed that right after cleaning your cages, the snakes crapped right smack in the middle of the cage, and did not right away? ever wonder why? Don't they want a clean cage?

The answer is, they are like you, they want the "their" cage to smell like "their" cage. Not like something else or some others cage.

Sir, that is their nature(behavior) that is why they have forked tongues and scent glands.

In many cases you may not notice the protest, but it always occurs, sometimes if more pronounced at certain times of the year. Like now. In the fall, they behaviorally move to a small safer home area, in the fall, its very important they get this right. In the spring, or summer, its not as important as they are increasing the size of their range.(depends on species). Cheers

Frank,
I put in all her old hides, in the same position they were in. I always do this, I also threw a handful of the old bedding over the new. Besides why would she start feeling out of place a week later?

After 48 hours she was destroying her nose so for now i moved her back to her drawer. I guess I'll just try again in a few weeks.

Hi zach
My advice is nice and simple, its a system iv allways used and works great.

set up your large tub as normal
take your small tub and place the whole thing in the large tub and just leave the lid on the small one ajar.
as your snake feels more confident it will move out of the small one.

works a treat, but obviously if you small tub doesnt fit then it wont.

.
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www.uk-hybrids.com

You mentioned the temps ranging from 70-90. 90 degrees seems a little warm to me, IMO. Try lowering the range to perhaps 70-80 and see if that helps. I keep all my snakes around 78-80-82 and have good results, especially in those not rubbing their noses. Perhaps the warmer temps induce the snake to become more active?
The other posters also had some good advice. Also, is the cage she is in really big compared to her size? I have had some snakes not like the bigger cage when they were put in it, as they felt they were too much " out in the open ". I then moved them back to the smaller cage until they grew a little bit more.

Keep us posted!!! Take care!

Billy

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Genesis 1:1

No, I meant that the cage is 70 at the cool side and 90 at the warm side with about a 4 degree drop in both at night. She can choose to be at whatever temp she wants at any point.

I might be blowing wind here, but if she doesn't like 90 but likes it cooler, then she doesn't have as much space - seeing as only part of the tub is available to her.

I know with my kings (admittedly small number) when the warm side is above 82/84 - they spend most of their time on the cool side and very little on the warm side.

It has been suggested that that may because I don't feed as much as some do, I don't know.
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3.0 WC; 0.3 CB L. getula californiae
1.0 CB L. getula nigrita
0.1.1 WC; 0.0.3 CH Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

All of my knigsnakes are provided with A WIDE RANGE OF TEMPS. While they don't use the extreme warm spots very often they do use them for very specific parts of their digestive and reproductive cycles. I can garantee that while your snakes may only occasionly use the area that is 84 degrees, there are times where they want something much warmer and would use it if you let them.

Equally they would probobly use areas much cooler then 70 if allowed, but for most of us, the room temp of our homes is the lowest we can provide.

I also use larger cages then many people on this forum because I need the space to separate the 20 degrees or more diference between the two sides. She has plenty of room. And she chooses to spends almost her entire life under a single pot at 70 degrees taking up no more then 6 inches of space.

You may be correct, but I only have two hides in each cage. They are either in the warm hide or the cool hide. With thermostat set to temps above 82/84 the warm hide is only used for maybe 24 hours after feeding. Rest of time is in the cool hide. With 82/84 they are sometimes in one hide, sometimes in the other, which seems healthier to me.

Perhaps if more than two hides, or bigger hides were used, a warmer temp could be provided for the times they want it.
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3.0 WC; 0.3 CB L. getula californiae
1.0 CB L. getula nigrita
0.1.1 WC; 0.0.3 CH Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

Wow - I just got an idea that would solve the two hide problem and be marketable.

Sorry, I can't elaborate, it might be the kind of thing I can patent and sell to Exo-Terra or one of those companies.
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3.0 WC; 0.3 CB L. getula californiae
1.0 CB L. getula nigrita
0.1.1 WC; 0.0.3 CH Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata