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Stupid Thing

pixie343 Oct 02, 2006 08:34 PM

Being the stupid person I am I did not know untile about 2 weeks ago that I needed a UVB light I thought that I could just use a full spectrum light and that would be ok but it was not because first my female died who I had for a little over a year and now my male just died today who I had from when he was only 4 months old and he was 20 months. You think I would have thought about the light but no. I had figuered that my girl just died of becoming egg bound even though I did have a nesting box for her. But now that he died I know that she must have died of somthing like bone disease. I feel soooo stupid.

Another thing is that I just got him a new 3 week girl friend yesterday that I figured I could breed in about a year.

Something that goes with her. How do you feed a veiled that young because she does not seem to want to eat. I did just get her yesterday so she might still be a little stressed from that chang.

I hope I can do good with her. I think if somthing were to happen to her that I would never get another chameleon because I would not want to kill it even though I love them.
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Meg

Replies (6)

squillaci7 Oct 02, 2006 09:38 PM

Most definately their deaths were a direct reult from metabolic bone disease due to lack of a bulb which produces UVA and UVB. Without UVB they cannot manufacture vitmain D, which assists in calcium uptake into their bones. They can be expesnive but it's well worth the investment. Get one for your new girl ASAP or she will die even sooner due to her young age and high growth demands.
As for her eating...at such a young age she really shouldn't have even been sold, so for future reference never by a cham that is under 6 weeks, preferably even older because of the higher motality rates of hatchlings. She will probably only want to eat fruit flies, which can be purchased offline, and really small crickets, probably just a little bigger than pinhead crickets, which can also be purchased online.

0.0.1 Rose Hair Tarantula-Clarise
1.1.0 Panther Chameleons-Diablacito & Mamacita
0.0.63 Panther Chameleon eggs in the incubator!
2.0.0 Cats- Gatsby & Watson
2.0.0 Sugar Gliders-Winston & Wilson
Too many fish to count.

Cheers,
Nick

pixie343 Oct 03, 2006 05:47 AM

I have already got her a good UVB and UVA light plus a basking light. Beleave me I am NOT going to make that mistake again.
-----
Meg

kinyonga Oct 03, 2006 11:01 AM

I'm sorry that you lost your two chameleons. Its especially hard when you know you didn't have the husbandry right. I'm sure you feel terrible. All you can do is learn from the mistakes that you made with them and hope that your new little female will have a long life with you.

I know that there are quite a few people out there who think that full spectrum lights that they buy at a store automatically contain the UVB part of the spectrum too...which is why most of the time I say "full spectrum including UVB" when I ask if they are using one. One more thing many people don't realize....the light should NOT pass through glass or plastic.

Your chameleons likely showed some classic indications of MBD, but having never seen it you missed seeing them. Here's a site that shows some pretty terrible cases of it...
http://adcham.com/html/veterinary/mbd-fractures-kramer.html

Calcium, phosphorous, vitamin D and vitamin A are some of the main players in good bone health. Its important to have them in balance. Insects have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio...so I dust the insects with a phosphorous-free calcium at almost every feeding. I also use a vitamin powder twice a month and because my chameleons don't get natural sunlight, I dust the insects with a calcium D3 powder twice a month lightly. The vitamin A in the vitamins I use is from a beta carotene source. Both vitamin D3 and preformed vitamin A can build up in the system so you need to be careful. Beta carotene sources of vitamin A don't build up and vitamin D3 produced from UVB exposure can't either.

Appropriate temperatures are important too so that the chameleon can digest its food properly and thus be able to use the nutrients that you are feeding her.

I recommend that you gutload your insects with an appropriate and nutritious diet before you feed them to the chameleon. Its important to keep the insects healthy...and by gutloading, we can feed them things that will be good for the chameleon too. Here's a gutload that is recommended by a lot of people...
http://adcham.com/html/husbandry/gutload.html

You asked..."How do you feed a veiled that young because she does not seem to want to eat. I did just get her yesterday so she might still be a little stressed"...I feed mine pinhead crickets. You can use fruit flies too. Hopefully she will eat soon. Is she drinking? (Be careful when you are watering her that big pools of water don't collect. There have been cases reported of baby chameleons aspirating water and dying from it.)

I use no substrate with my chameleons and real non-toxic plants that have been well-washed (both sides of the leaves)for my chameleons. Cedar or pine substrates contain oils that are not good for your chameleon and many soils, etc. can cause impaction if ingested.

Feeding of females ONCE THEY REACH AN AGE WHERE THEY CAN REPRODUCE can be controlled to help control the clutch sizes and extend her life. Ask me more about that in a few months!
You said..."I hope I can do good with her. I think if somthing were to happen to her that I would never get another chameleon because I would not want to kill it even though I love them"...if you get the care right and you are lucky enough to have purchased a healthy chameleon, she could be with you for 5 or 6 years.

Here are some sites with good information...
http://adcham.com/
http://www.chameleonnews.com/

There was a site out there with good information about gout, MBD, etc. but at the moment its down. Here are some sites that talk a little about MBD...
http://www.all-creatures.com/456012.html
"Excess vitamin A supplementation may interfere with the metabolism of vitamin D3, resulting in metabolic bone disease. Excess vitamin A supplementation may also lead to organ toxicity (Kidney, Liver)."
" Excess vitamin D3 supplementation – especially in combination with calcium – may result in organ toxicity. Metastatic calcification and gout are common results. Gular edema or pseudo gout is a common clinical sign of these problems. The pseudo-gout (calcium hydroxyapatite) deposits usually appear as irregular firm swellings over joints in the limbs and on ribs."

If you have any other questions, just ask!

pixie343 Oct 03, 2006 03:07 PM

From looking at the website you gave I am also positive they both died of MBD because his cask was bendable and right before my girl died she did not have any control of her tongue and it just kind of hung there.

You asked if she is drinking, she is whenever I mist her so there is no real problem there but how do you guys actually feed them the crickets. Do you just put them in a little cup or what becase I put some of them in a little cup like I did with my other chameleons and she just kind of looks at them without doing anything.

Thanks for you help.
-----
Meg

squillaci7 Oct 03, 2006 08:02 PM

Cup feeding is usually something that can take a while for a cham to get used to doing. Considering she is very young I would just let the crickets free roam around the cage. I tried cup feeding when I first got my chams a long time ago and they just looked at it and walked away. Then I tried letting the crickets roam around the cage and they gobbled them up. Just make sure that if there are any crickets left in the cage they are not harrassing your little girl cause that can cause major stress on her. Also don't use too big of a cage because she will have more trouble finding food. I would use a Reptarium from around 20-30 gallons.

0.0.1 Rose Hair Tarantula-Clarise
1.1.0 Panther Chameleons-Diablacito & Mamacita
0.0.63 Panther Chameleon eggs in the incubator!
2.0.0 Cats- Gatsby & Watson
2.0.0 Sugar Gliders-Wilson & Winston
Too many fish to count.

Cheers,
Nick

pixie343 Oct 04, 2006 03:17 PM

Thanks for all your help.
She is eating now and is looking cuter than ever. She is even starting her first sheding with me. I have also decided to name her Pumpkin because she is such a sweet little thing. I have a felling she is going to be a really good chameleon she even walks onto my hand if I put it by her.
-----
Meg

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