Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok, so I have a male panther around 6 months old. Lately he's been resting on the vines in his cage with his body resting on the vine like his legs aren't strong enough to hold him up. His legs also look a little skinny. He also seems to be sleeping alot during the day. Today one of his legs was hanging off of the vine.He eats plenty and gets enough water. He has UV light(natural and flouresent). He isn't shakey. His color is fine. The only thing I can think of is some sort of vitamin deficincy. I dust his crix with repti-cal and herpivite. Maybe the pet store isn't gut loading. I'm stumped, all the books I've read don't desribe these symptoms at all. Is he just lazy? If anyone has any suggestions let me know.
Thanks guys.

>Maybe the pet store isn't gut loading.

It's not their responsibility. Gutload in a cricket only lasts as long it takes them to pass the gutload out. So even if they did, you would have to feed them within hours of buying. Gutload is just as much, if not more, cause to put food in the feeder's bellies for when the reptile eats it, as it is for making the feeder stong and in good health.
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CANADIAN SILKWORMS

You said..."He has UV light(natural and flouresent)"...neither should pass through glass or plastic.

What are the temperatures in his cage? Basking area? The rest of the cage?

You said..."I dust his crix with repti-cal and herpivite"....how often and how heavily?

You said...."Maybe the pet store isn't gut loading"...its something you need to take responsibility for. As Will indicated gutloading is something that needs to be continuous and with the intention of making the insect healthy and containing healthy things that will eventually end up in your chameleon. Here's a gutload that is recommended by many people...
http://adcham.com/html/husbandry/gutload.html

You said..."Lately he's been resting on the vines in his cage with his body resting on the vine like his legs aren't strong enough to hold him up"....one of the signs of MBD (metabolic bone disease) as stated by a vet is "a chameleon may show inability to get up on its legs and lift its body off the ground (called lack of "truncal lifting""....
http://adcham.com/html/veterinary/mbd-fractures-kramer.html

Have you had a fecal done on the chameleon?
Is he pooping? Do you have a substrate? What plants are in your chameleon's cage?

You said..."His legs also look a little skinny. He also seems to be sleeping alot during the day. Today one of his legs was hanging off of the vine"...all of these things are not signs of good health. I think you should get him to a vet ASAP. If your chameleon has MBD he needs help to get things back in balance and the husbandry needs to be corrected to prevent it from happening again, IMHO.

Have you had a fecal done on the chameleon?

Is he pooping? Do you have a substrate? What plants are in your chameleon's cage?

Hope you can get him healthy again.

Let's see, where to start. He is in a screen cage, so his UV isn't filtered. His basking spot is 90, and the rest of the cage is around 72 during the day. I lightly dust his crix about 3 times a week,with both herpivite and calcium. I used to gutload well because I ordered my crix by the 1000, but lately I've been getting them from the pet store because it's easier. He is pooping, his last one was the biggest chameleon poop I've ever seen, curious. I don't use substrate, or live plants, I know I should use live plants, I'm waiting till I get his new(bigger) cage set up. So I guess I should get him to the vet. Let me know what you guys think, and if you have any suggestions for my husbandy.Thanks.

Your husbandry seems okay (temps, etc.). I assume that you allow the cage to go down to room temperature at night? Do you mist or use a dripper or both?

Re: supplementation...Gutloading is important and so is supplementation. You said you dust with herptivite several times a week...I only dust with the vitamin powder a couple of times a month. You didn't mention dusting with a calcium/D3 powder...because my chameleons normally only get artificial light, I dust with a calcium/D3 powder lightly twice a month too.
My chameleons seem to do well...so I can only assume that what I'm doing for them is okay.

I would advise that you give the chameleon as wide a variety of insects as possible too.

You said..."So I guess I should get him to the vet"...the vet should be able to tell you what is wrong with your chameleon for sure. Here on the forum, we can only speculate....but what you described IMHO needs attention. I wouldn't wait too long either...chameleons are good at hiding their illnesses so by the time we see visible signs that something is wrong, it needs immediate attention usually.

Hope all goes well with your chameleon!

A couple of comments about the leg symptoms. I agree that your cham may be in trouble, but a clarification on the leg issues...
Sometimes chams dangle legs while resting, so that all by itself is not a symptom. Most of mine dangle legs at different times. Also, cham legs can look pretty lean depending on the age and species so that is not a great way to determine if your cham is a healthy weight all by itself. It is better to look at the tail base. If you can see tendons or muscles well defined it is a bit skinny. If the tail is completely round in cross section rather than oval, the cham is too fat. Chams should not sleep during the day...that IS a sign of trouble.