Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I have a trio of adult black milks that I picked up this year. My question is, do I cool them like our north American milks? And if so, for how long and at what temp? I used to breed the mexican milks, and cooled them at 53 for 3 months.
Thanks for your help!
Jason Mc

I have been breeding B Milks for five years and during that time I have fiddled with brumation temps. This year I produced 38 hatchlings from two females (21 and 19 eggs respectively with one unfertile egg in each clutch). I brumated these ladies at 70 degrees. It is my opnion that far too many N American colubrids are brumated too cool, having said that there are some species that need the mid 50's to produce viable cluthces. These milks seem to have a relatively wide range of successful brumation temps but keeping them a tad warmer works well for me. Good luck in 2007!

Hey,
Thanks for the reply, and congrats on the hatchlings. Those are some nice clutchs. How long did you cool for if you dont mind me asking?

Thanks again:
Jasonmc

I start slowly cooling down my colubrids in mid Nov (taking them off feed on Nov 1st) and put them in the "cold room" (70 is not too cold) until Valentines day. Great results thus far and I have yet to experience any mortality during brumation or right after pulling them out.

Wow, I can't argue with your results, but it seems to me that gaigeae would be active and hungry down into the 60's. Others have mentioned brumating them like Hondurans, but it sounds like you've developed a unique approach. I'd be interested in hearing more about how you brumate your gaigeae and what other methods you've tried in the past.

Thanks,
Nate

Hey Nate,
My gaigeae haven't shown any noticeable weight loss during brumation (I'm sure they lose some weight but not enough to show a markedly decreased body score) and their activity level drops off. I tend to think that light levels play the most important role with these guys. My colubrid cages get covered to not allow any light in except during the weekly check on the animals (health/water bowl check and complete air exchange). There are many ways to skin a cat and I'm glad to see so many people experimenting with different methods. Oh yeah, thanks for the link on temp averages. You can never get enough good information.

... but, as Phil and others have shown, it doesn't hurt, either. In their natural habitat, black milks would not experience the seasonal changes in day length and temperature that trigger brumation in North American milks. Mine never seem to want to go off feed in the winter, but in the spring, the female will become visibly swollen with unfertilized ova, and the male will stop eating and become restless, indicating that it's time to put them together for a couple of weeks. I've done this with my '02 pair for the last two years, and the result was 2 good clutches (6 and 8 eggs, respectively) with no slugs. One of the eggs produced this year contained a two-headed hatchling that was too deformed to live, but I don't think that had anything to do with the breeding technique. Whether you cool them or not, I think you'll get good results either way.

Nate

Monthly Averages for San Jose, Costa Rica

Nate,
Looking at the temp chart link that you posted, it appears that I can cool mine in the upper 50's. Is that what you cool your at?

Also, both of my males are refusing meals now, but my female is eating like a hog!

Thanks:
JasonMc

I think you misunderstood... the subject line is the answer to your original question. It's not necessary to cool black milks because the temperature and length of day remain stable year round in their natural habitat. I've never cooled mine, and so far, have had excellent breeding results. They do have a decreased photoperiod in the winter because they're close to a south-facing window, so it's possible that that is what's stimulating ovulation and breeding, as others have speculated.

It's interesting that your males aren't eating... in my experince, the only thing that will put an adult male black milk off feed is the smell of an ovulating female, so it might be worth pairing them up and seeing if any magic happens. If it doesn't, you can cool them if you're so inclined, and try again in the spring.

Good luck,
Nate

Thanks Nate,
These Black milks are something else! I'll try putting the male with the female and see what happens. I never thought of putting anything together this time of year. However like I said, these snakes are something else.
Out of all the snakes I have owned over the years! I have never had the pleasure of owning a more pleasurable snake. It's cool how active they are, and have never been a problem at feeding!

Thanks for your help!
JasonMc

My approach is similar to Phil's. I keep them in a room with no heat and keep it dark. Temps are around 70. Never had a problem getting good eggs this way. I agree that the light cycle is just as important if not more important than temps as long as the temps are at least slightly lower than during the spring/summer/fall temps.

Good luck.

Dave

DNS Reptiles