Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

I just checked in on my Hypo Nicaraguan Female and she looked a little funny today. She just shed last night. I noticed that her tail end looks lumpy and it's tipped slightliy to the side. She's just under four feet long and last wiehghed in at 720 grams back in august. I am unsure of her age. I was wondering if she might be experiencing pre-ovulation swelling? I wasn't going to breed her until next year to get some more size on her. I'm posting a few pics....tell me what you think. Should I put my male in with her or get ready to clean up an 8 inch poop?

Amie
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Here's another picture of her, a little closer this time.
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4.3 Colombian b.c.i. (various morphs)
4.4 Nicaraguan boas (various morphs)
1.0 Bluefield's nicaraguan boa "Shadow"
0.1 Poss. Super Hypo Hog Island Boa "Pumpkin"
1.0 Corn Island Boa
1.0 Panamanian Boa "Jack"
0.1 Caulker Cay Boa "Tempest"
0.1 Sears Hog Island Boa "Oink"

Here she is in a 4' x 2' x 1' boaphile cage. She is in the top cage, the male is in the bottom. They are approximately the same lenght (the male might be slightly longer). He weighs 0ver 900 grams. The picture was taken back in july of this year.
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Frank Roberts
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John Rodriguez and Frank Roberts or vise versa

She looks a little small to me. I would hold off at last another year and put some heft on her. How long have you had her and how much has she grown in that time? My Mex/Costa Rican female wasn't much bigger than your Nic (closer to 5 feet) and bred last season for the first time at 3.5 years old, but she was much thicker. And even though she ate through most of her term, she still came out of it very thin. Here's a pic of her about mid-term.

Billy

>>Here she is in a 4' x 2' x 1' boaphile cage. She is in the top cage, the male is in the bottom. They are approximately the same lenght (the male might be slightly longer). He weighs 0ver 900 grams. The picture was taken back in july of this year.
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She seemed too small to breed that's why I was thinking of waiting until next year. She was about 36 inches long when I got her in march and was really thin. She's put on a lot of weight since then (she was under 450 grams then), but I haven't been pushing her. I was curious if SHE knew that she was too small? Could one ovulate at that size and actually have a viable litter? I figured that she should be at least 4.5 feet and 1500 grams before I introduced the male. Id be too afraid at her current size that she wouldn't make it through a pregnancy.

Amie

I think that's smart. Since she has grown almost a foot in 6 or 7 months, it would indicate she is still a young'un, probably around two years old. Another 14 months of solid feedings and I bet she'll be ready for you. That's the nice thing about the CA's, they do mature faster than colombians and Bcc's.

Put me on the wait list for the babies!

Billy

>>She seemed too small to breed that's why I was thinking of waiting until next year. She was about 36 inches long when I got her in march and was really thin. She's put on a lot of weight since then (she was under 450 grams then), but I haven't been pushing her. I was curious if SHE knew that she was too small? Could one ovulate at that size and actually have a viable litter? I figured that she should be at least 4.5 feet and 1500 grams before I introduced the male. Id be too afraid at her current size that she wouldn't make it through a pregnancy.
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>>Amie

Well Amie, I was really hopeing we were on the Ball python forum when I started reading this question....
Female boas need to be a absolute minimum weight in my opinion of 10 pounds! That would be more like 5,000 grams! Now that is just the minimum....the actual good breeding weight should be about 20 pounds!!! That is 10,000 Grams!!!

Your animal is a weee little baby yet and if she has been breeding with a male...it is not good. She just does not have the internal capacity to have babies inside. Hope she has that 8 inch poop soon! Hope this helps, Andy
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A 20lb nic would be huge and certainly not the norm in my opinion. I would think 7-10 pounds would be a normal sized adult female.

Still way too small for breeding in my opinion....Thanks Andy
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Oh yea she is way to small... still a little string bean lol.

From what's being said even 3 pounds seems like serious trouble to me...can you tell me the weights of past females that had viable litters? Thanks Andy
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I would ask either the Burkes or Jeremy Stone. I think they have the most experience with Nics. I would think 3 pounds is a little small myself and probably wouldn't try a female if she was real small unless she was four years and at least 5 pounds. I have a three year old 7 pound female that I plan on trying this year maybe. I will let you know how it works out. Later V

i believe nicaraguans are still considered bci. sorry i just thought i should mention it. i'm not trying to be a smartass.

How could you still not think its safe to breed her if its a nicaraguan? they get 5 feet, its full grown, breed it
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Vince Martino

1.0 Amel Cornsnake "Sunny"
1.1 Snow Cornsnake "Gary Busey" and "Slopes"
0.1 Okeetee Corn (2nd generation off the hunt club)
1.0 Spider Ball Python "Ceasar"
0.1 Colombian Red-tailed Boa "Sammy"
1.1 Albino Striped California Kings "mean" and "meaner"
1.0 Pastel Bearded Dragon "Norbert"
0.1 Hypo Nicaraguan Boa

Yikes!! A 20 lb Nic, now that would be impressive! I'm glad that my anery isn't going to be even close to that...she's a mean little witch. At least the hypo that I was asking about is a sweetheart.

Amie

I believe she looks to be minimum 2.5 - 3.5 years old, and so she is without a doubt more than sexually mature.

These are Central Americans Dwarfs, not Colombians... they don't need the length or weight we are accustomed to hearing with colombians, which is also exagerated in most cases.

IMHO, one of the best boa breeders out there, and by far one of the best for Central American and Insular subspecies, would be Gus Rentfro, Rio Bravo Reptiles. He's successfully bred sexually mature central american ssp.'s at under 3' several times. I think some lengths were around 28", 34", 38"...etc.

Check out his site, I believe it has more to do with maturity and not size or weight.
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

I hear what you are saying, but that still seems way to small. my male Corn Island is that exact size 1.5lbs and I would not even consider breeding him if he was a she at that size. Please Gus or someone correct me if I am wrong.

Regardless of age(if known) of the animal in question here
I wouldnt understand a breeding by this animal due to its overall body mass.She would no doubt go at this stage but why risk future ventures for the sake of another few months of good feed?Pump her up good and youll have less recovery issues and better quality litter(s) later.But if ya gotta make a buck ..... who's to question it right ?

My $.0¼

M/

>>I hear what you are saying, but that still seems way to small. my male Corn Island is that exact size 1.5lbs and I would not even consider breeding him if he was a she at that size. Please Gus or someone correct me if I am wrong.

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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Hey, Amie!
I'm no expert, but I got some advice from what I'd consider a good source. I heard that female nics can breed safely as long as they're over 700 grams.
Mine's nowhere close, but I wanted to get her over the 3 year mark before considering it anyway. I'm hoping for next year on that project.
I honestly don't know what I'd do if I were you, but I thought I'd throw that at you.
Good luck!
Always a fan of your collection,
Aaron

I'd wait another year, maybe 2. I have no idea if she's ready now, but I'd still wait. She just looks so small. She hasn't got the girth and she's not that well muscled yet. She just looks like she needs more time to develope. I know she's not going to be a "big" boa, but I think she need to have a more "mature look" to her before she breeds.

It's really up to you if you want to breed her this year or not. Just remember that carrying babies and giving birth takes a lot out of a female. If she's not in top condition....... Well, I won't go there. Just do what you think is right.

That's a much bigger response than I ever expected! So basically she could go but I should really wait a year. Personally I think she's still too small. Out of curiousity, to find out if she really had lumps or if she was just laying wierd, I took her out of her cage for a little while, she does seem slightly swollen on the tail end (and she hasn't pooped). Her weight was 846 grams yesterday and she hasn't eaten since starting her shed. I have heard of 1500 gram females having viable litters...Vin Russo just did it this year with his anery nic female. She was really thin when I got her and she is putting on good wieght, my concern would be that she wouldn't have the fat stores to complete a prengnacy.

So to my other question...could that be pre-ovulation swelling in the pics? I have had snakes for 12 years and have never bred any so I really don't know what it will look like when mine are ready and there isn't much info on pre-ovulation...I have looked at tons of actual ovulation pictures...

Amie

Hi Amie,
It is true that Nics are smaller than what most people are used to when they breed. However, if she were my boa, I would wait at least another year until breeding her. Pregnancy can be very stressful on females and most don't eat during that time so it's important that females have enough fat stores going into the season to get them through breeding and pregnancy. Based on those pictures (especially the comparison shot) she doesn't have enough body mass to breed yet IMO. Aside from the possiblity of her not eating all season, I also worry that a female that thin might have a difficult time giving birth (or passing slugs if there are any). If she is old enough, she might produce follicles anyway, but I wouldn't encourage it! lol I know that people like to know a general weight range that is good for breeding, but I like to look at each animal as an individual and make the determination that way. That leaves a lot of room for judgment, but I've seen a great variation in sizes of adult Nics and I think that looking at them individually works best for us. In general, I prefer to play it on the safe side when there is a question because it can never hurt to give them an extra year of food and growth! We've had many Nics that we didn't end up breeding until 4-5 years old because even though they had stopped growing length-wise, we wanted them to thicken up before we bred them. I hope this helps!
Amanda

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Amanda Burke
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Burke Reptiles Website