Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A friend of mine wants to raise mice for snake food but is wondering about pre-killing. I.e. HOW to do it.

She doesn't like the idea of CO2 as the cost to build a CO2 tank is too much for her, plus she doesn't like the idea of the suffocation. I personally don't like it either, but thats something else entirely...

What she did have in mind was chloroform. I advised against it, but are there any chemists out there? I wasn't sure if it would remain in the body of the mouse and thus be injested by the snake. It just seems like too big of a risk in my opinion...but does anyone know for sure?

is not a good idea.Chloroform will be in the lungs and system of the mice and you will make your reptile very sick and possibly kill it...CO2 is not suffocation.They breathe normally but just Carbon Dioxide instead of Oxygen, the mice/rats barely know whats going on before they pass out.It is by far the most humane way to kill them besides cervical dislocation.If you do a Google search there are sites that will tell you how to do this properly, personally I find this even more distasteful I prefer CO2.
Otherwise I would suggest buying prekilled or you could feed live which many say is not a great idea either.
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Yeah, I *also* figured there'd be some of the toxin in the system of the mouse.
True, the mouse would need less exposure for a fatality, but again...just not worth the risk in my opinion.

As for the CO2, I don't know. It seems to me that trying to take a breath and not getting any air would be quite unnerving to me and possibly even a pit painful. I remember as a youngin' I once tried to take a drink out of a half full 2 liter coke bottle. I kinda inhaled the CO2 as I was about to drink and it wasn't really very pleasant...
But I'll take your word for it...

It amazes me how many people seem to believe that prey animals routinely drop dead in front of wild snakes so that they can eat them "safely", but...let's not go there again, lol.

You can build a cheap, effective CO2 chamber thusly:

Buy a small cooler, styrofoam is fine, but won't last- a cheap knockoff Igloo type, that holds one six pack, or the lunchbox size. (Too large and you waste gas)

Buy a small paintball tank and a "remote line" at a paintball supplier. A remote line is a braided hose with an inline valve on it. One end will attach to the tank, the other you just mount in the cooler/ice chest. Drill a hole through, stick the hose end in, and use silicone or similar to hold it in place and seal it. A 30 oz paintball tank costs about $3 to fill at the sporting goods store, and will last you through hundreds of mice before needing to be refilled.

These work great, can be made for about $25-30, and last indefinitely.

Good luck!

J
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Jamie
0.1.0 Python molurus bivittatus
1.0.0 Python regius
0.1.0 Varanus exanthematicus
2.1.0 Pogona vitticeps
and that's just the bedroom...

I'll pass on the info. She seemed to think it'd be too expensive...

Chloroform?

Talk about jumping from frying pan to fire!

First of all, its ilegal for a non-licenensed individual to even posses chloroform, let alone administer it to an animal.

Second, how exactly would chloroforoming a mouse be any more humane then using CO2? When I was 7, i had my tonsils out. They chloroformed me. It was a terrifying nightmare.

Third, how in the world does one safely chlroform a mouse? They aren't exactly gonna hold still and count backwards from 100!

Fourth, chloroform is a volatile, toxic and hazardous substance. If not handled properly, it poses a real threat to the user.

Fifth, chlorofom is not commonly available - it has to be purchased from chemical supply companies. It is expensive to buy and to ship. Manufacturing it in a garage lab is dangerous and ilegal.

Sixth, as stated in other posts, any residue left in the mouse poses a real threat to the snake. Snakes are extreamly sensetive to all hydrocarbons, and can suffer ill effects at very small concentrations.

Seventh, (and this is a no-brainer) snakes are chemo-sensitive hunters/feeders - if it doesn't smell right, they won't eat it. Chloroform has a disiinct odor to us humans,and snakes are much more sensetive to odors then we are. No snake would ever accept food tainted with the odor of chloroform.

Co2 is legal, safe, and non-toxic.

If that's too costly, buy prekilled frozen.

JPD

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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

"drugs are bad!"

CO2 is considered "humane"

Also should mention some "old school" methods:

Cervical dislocation - a fancy term for breaking it's neck

Blunt force trauma to the head - another fancy description for whacking the rodents head, typically done by swinging the rodent by the tail.

drowning - self explanatory
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB, selectively bred from good stock)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
13.26 BRB
11.16 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

HAMMER TIME!
-Or-
How To Wack A Mouse.

Hold mouse by the tail, feet away, in your off hand.
Use a small, light-weight, but dense object - I find a tack hammer perfect.

Firmly grasp the tack hammer in your dominant hand. Hold the head of the hammer at right angles to the floor. So it looks like a "T". This gives you more striking surface, like an oversize driver there is a wider "sweet spot".

With a quick motion swing the hammer in a vertical arc, from your shoulder, away and downwards, aiming for the junction of the mouse's head and neck. A brief backswing is helpful in maintaining accuracy.

Follow through is important. Remember to swing through the mouse. If you hesitate or are timid, you will miss or only injure the mouse. You want to make good, clean contact to assure a quick, painless kill. So, if you are squeamish or unsure of your ability, practice on a catnip mouse.

Properly executed, the Hammer Time technique immediately renders the subject unconscious and death follows within seconds. Expect some kicking about - just like in cartoons. I usually toss the wackees in a cardboard box to expire. If performed correctly, there should be little or no bleeding.

Note that excessive bleeding is a sign of poor technique. Hesitation and flinching are the biggest culprets - remember to Follow Through and keep your eye on the mouse. Excessive force (overswinging) is your enemy - let the hammer do the work. You're hitting a chip shot, not a driver.

Hammer Time is particularly useful for Gerbils, which have loosely attached tail skin. When Gerbils are swung, the tail skin can come off (deglove), leaving you holding a wisp of useless fur while the Gerbil has a chance to escape, albeit with a skinned tail.

Regards,

Nohj D.
(My Evil Twin)
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

From the rodent farm in the garage, I load a bunch of feeders into one of those plastic Kritter Keepers for transport to the snake room. I feed a group of same size snakes at the same time. hatchlings on Sunday, Subadults on Monday and all others on Tuesday. Not all fed weekly, just that's the day of the week they'd get fed if getting fed that week.

To feed, I select feeder (whichever one I grab tail of first)
swing it by the handle (AKA tail) such that the back of the neck hits really hard against the right angle edge of my work bench. Like you, if done right little to no bleeding. I then toss it into the appropriate cage still kicking. Yes I have switched over to feeding in cages, I have toooooooo many to feed in other tubs!!

Oh yeah, the larger the rat, the harder you have to hit it!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB, selectively bred from good stock)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
13.26 BRB
11.16 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

We're all gonna be reincarnated as lab rats, getting variously wacked, hammered, CO2ed, cervically separated, cloroformed, and live fed.

Although, first I may have to spend some time being an ant with an overhead magnifying glass.

What cats hear when they get a song stuck in their head...

"Love to eat dem mousies,
Mousies what I loves to eat,
Bite they little heads off,
And nibble on they tiny feet!"

JPD

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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

"remember to Follow Through and keep your eye on the mouse."

LOL...too funny

Swing em by the tail into the corner of somthing hard like an aquarium. Its cheap, effective and with a bit of practice extremely fast.

YOu have got to be kidding.The easiest and most painless way to dispatch rodents is this. I am sure that you have plastic grocery bags.

step 1: open bag
step 2: insert rodent
step 3: find a hard wall
step 4: whack the bag against said wall
step 5: wait a min.
step 6: feed dead varmint to your snake

Cheap and effective.