Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone
Here are some pics of the outdoor enclosure I built for my 2 boxies over the past month or so - I wish I had more room in my backyard to build something like PHRatz - maybe one day!

Here is a view from the front. I have a piece of lattice that hooks on to the front so the dogs can't get in.

As you can see, they are quite curious.

These pics were taken a few days ago. It was a surprisingly warm day so they were very active.

Dozer

Daisy heading into their cave

I buried some logs in the hope that they will burrow underneath them to hibernate. Also, the house/cave is made with brick on three sides and slate as a roof to keep them warm should they hibernate in there. The enclosure is filled with about 10 bags of mulch, top soil, and wood chips - making the interior floor about a foot higher than the rest of the yard (hopefully that will help them during flood season)

She always looks so serious.

One more pic of Dozer... he's such a ham.

Thanks for looking. I welcome any comments or advice on improvements.

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My Kids:
Jack Russel Terrier: Skipper
Miniature Pinscher: Bambi
3 Eastern Box Turtles: Daisy, Dozer, and Magnum (yearling)
1 Red Eared Slider: Rosie
1 Twist Neck Turtle: Lilypad
2 rats: Clementine and Elsie

Yes, we all covet the Ratz compound!

Cute dogs, cute little pen, cute turtles. You did a good job on your first box turtle pen. You'll probably find yourself expanding it before too long. One thing you may want to consider is a little more shade in the form of a low, non-toxic bush/shrub. Fall is a GREAT time to plant! Also, make sure you place a nice mound of leaves in the center of the pen before winter sets in...I'm talking several feet high if you can. Even though you gave them a nice layer of bedding, you'll be amazed at how much it'll settle over just a short time. Don't be concerned about them having a warms spot over the winter. It's actually better if they stay consistently cold all winter long.

You did a great job! Your lattice extensions are very creative.

Thanks so much for the reply! I worked very hard on the planning and execution of this enclosure (I'm not much of a carpenter! In fact, this was the first major project I've ever attempted). But it's great to hear from so many seasoned turtle lovers that I did a decent job

I do have one question for you though... You mentioned shrubbery for the enclosure. I have done some research on plants, but I'm wondering what type of shrub would be
1. safe for them
2. small enough so it doesn't take over the enclosure, and
3.hardy enough to last the winter
...as you know, I'm near the shore and we have very sandy soil here so a lot of plants don't grow well. Any suggestions you could make would be very much appreciated. Again, thanks so much for the reply
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My Kids:
Jack Russel Terrier: Skipper
Miniature Pinscher: Bambi
3 Eastern Box Turtles: Daisy, Dozer, and Magnum (yearling)
1 Red Eared Slider: Rosie
1 Twist Neck Turtle: Lilypad
2 rats: Clementine and Elsie

I understand your dilemna. Did you say full sun? Ugh, I can't remember. It's hard to go wrong with little pine tree type evergreens. Junipers, for example, come in a wide variety and many are tolerant of both salt and sandy soil. There are a lot of perrenials you could choose from, but they don't provide as much shade. I personally go with a dwarf cultivar of "Rose of Sharon", Hibiscus syriacus(something like that). It's pretty, edible, and it loves my clay soil. That doesn't do much good for you, though. Did you say that you live on LBI? There's a wonderful garden center right across the street from what used to be called "Fisherman's Headquarters". They could give you a list of possibilities, and we could help you determine if they're toxic.

Ooh, another choice would be a grass of some sort. Many get large and would take over your enclosure, but you could purchase a smaller cultivar or restrict the roots by leaving it potted.

Steph is our resident horti-person...what do you think?

There are several resources that you can explore: any well stocked garden center should have someone on staff who can direct you to the native plants. If you tell them what it's for, they may go the extra mile. You can also call your county extension service or local chapter of the Audobon society and get lists of native plants, then narrow down your options.
Lowbush blueberries are terrific small shrubs that should do well in sandy soil, and grasses are great for turtle pens, too.

Daylilies should grow in those conditions and are perfectly safe with tasty flowers too. A large clump makes a nice shady hiding spot underneath.

I'll look at the local garden center for those blueberry bushes. They sound perfect, and in the summer they can eat the blueberries Thanks so much for the advice. Hopefully they still sell them this late in the season.
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My Kids:
Jack Russel Terrier: Skipper
Miniature Pinscher: Bambi
3 Eastern Box Turtles: Daisy, Dozer, and Magnum (yearling)
1 Red Eared Slider: Rosie
1 Twist Neck Turtle: Lilypad
2 rats: Clementine and Elsie

Just make sure you purchase a low bush variety: they only get 2 or 3 feet tall at the most (high bush blueberries get to be over 6 feet tall).
I find that a good way to get started is to seek out native plants and then take it from there.

)

Yes, they get full sun in their enclosure. We don't have any trees or anything in our yard.

That's exactly what I wanted! I figured a small evergreen shrub would be able to survive the cold weather. But I looked up poisonous plants on the internet and I found this page:
CTTC-Poisonous Plant List
I have what I think is a juniper (perfect size too) in my front yard. I was originally going to use this for the enclosure but the CTTC site said they are potentially poisonous! The problem is that I don't know enough about plants to know what will actually grow here and survive the winter

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My Kids:
Jack Russel Terrier: Skipper
Miniature Pinscher: Bambi
3 Eastern Box Turtles: Daisy, Dozer, and Magnum (yearling)
1 Red Eared Slider: Rosie
1 Twist Neck Turtle: Lilypad
2 rats: Clementine and Elsie

I love it! I'm going to save a picture of it to show my husband. Something like that would be great in my years. We are going for the English cottage look and that would look much nicer than what I had originally planned. Thanks for posting.

I think it looks just great. Your turtles are soooo pretty! I just don't see Eastern's unless I'm online.
One reason why I did want a pen so large is because my original pen was fine but I had it before the sulcata got here, before I had more than one box turtle. It was Shell E's pen & that was that.
Little did I know then that more turtles would come along.. that's why I wanted the huge pen now. If we were gonna go to all the trouble of building a new pen, then we figured we may as well make room just in case more show up & I think that will happen.
I think your pen looks wonderful!
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PHRatz

My turtles thank you for the compliment The male is a big ham - it's almost as if he knows what I'm doing with my camera because he darts over to me whenever I'm taking photos! The female just scowls at me(as you can see in the pic). She is such a grouch

These two are actually the first full grown EBTs that I've ever seen in person (In addition to these two I have a yearling, Magnum, who lives in a tank in my bedroom. He was my first EBT). I've always loved turtles but I've never seen any wild ones in this area. I got lucky when I received this pair. If all box turtles are this personable and entertaining I can understand why you have multiples. By the way, I'm sure you've posted this on the forum somewhere, but what kind of boxies do you have and how many? I would love to one day have a little troupe of boxies in an enclosure much like yours! But for now I'm still learning how to care for these two, which at times can be nerve-wracking.

I have a severe case of hibernation anxiety! I remember you mentioning in a previous post that Shell E is missing part of her shell. As you can see from my photos, Dozer is also missing a chunk from the front of his shell and cannot close up all the way. Is it safe for him to hibernate even though he can't close up? I'm scared to death of losing these guys during the winter and I'm trying to prepare the best I can to ensure they survive the hibernation. But if his chances are worsened by his previous injury I could keep him indoors over winter. I would love some feedback since you have experience with a similar situation. Thanks again for the reply and thank you for any future correspondence.
And once again, I have to say it....

I am SOOOO jealous of your enclosure!!!!
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My Kids:
Jack Russel Terrier: Skipper
Miniature Pinscher: Bambi
3 Eastern Box Turtles: Daisy, Dozer, and Magnum (yearling)
1 Red Eared Slider: Rosie
1 Twist Neck Turtle: Lilypad
2 rats: Clementine and Elsie

>>> If all box turtles are this personable and entertaining I can understand why you have multiples. By the way, I'm sure you've posted this on the forum somewhere, but what kind of boxies do you have and how many? I would love to one day have a little troupe of boxies in an enclosure much like yours! But for now I'm still learning how to care for these two, which at times can be nerve-wracking.

Oh they are personable, yesterday when I took a pic of that endangered baby at the zoo it looked up at me, was so curious about this stranger looking in. I was so impressed with that little doll.
Of course I NEVER turn down an invitation to show off my box turtles LOL!
Here's the URL for their photo album:
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.php?user=81788&cat=500&subcat=1639

>>
>>I have a severe case of hibernation anxiety! I remember you mentioning in a previous post that Shell E is missing part of her shell. As you can see from my photos, Dozer is also missing a chunk from the front of his shell and cannot close up all the way. Is it safe for him to hibernate even though he can't close up?

I think it is safe for them to hibernate even with part of the shell missing. I mainly worry about Shell E being out on her own with part of it missing because...
If she hadn't ended up so spoiled rotten by the time she was fully healed from her injuries, I still wouldn't have wanted to release her because she can't close up & protect herself from the many predators that live around us. The thought of sending her out into the world to be killed after it took her 2 years to heal up was just too much, I couldn't do it.

But wait how long have you had your box turtles?
Most books/sites/vets advise that you do not hibernate your box turtles if you've had them for less than 1 year.
You need a year to make certain that they are healthy enough to be hibernated. That's because when you don't know if they've had really good nutrition before you took them in, then they could be lacking vitamins & minerals they need to keep them going through hibernation.
Oh heck my weenie dog puppy has a leather glove that belongs to his Daddy.. I have to confiscate that LOL
BBL
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PHRatz

I love all of your pictures!!! I think it is wonderful that you rescue so many injured animals and and I adore the fact that you have so many rats! At one point I had 4 in a 3 story mansion of a cage Its amazing how much personality is stored in such a little package!

"how long have you had your box turtles? "

To answer your question I was given Dozer near the beginning of the summer and Daisy I received around August. I got Daisy from a friend who was moving and couldn't take her along. She had been on a diet of Rep-Cal Box turtle food mixed with strawberries. When I received her, she was quite heavy and eating very well (I added a larger variety of fruits and veggies to her diet) She has been an outdoor turtle for as long as my friend had her, and has hibernated outdoors every year. She's quite healthy so I have no concerns about her not being well enough to hibernate.

Dozer was a rescue. My brother thought he found a dead box turtle and called me. The pipes under my brother's condo had burst and there was a lot of very dirty water around the property. Dozer was sitting in the muck for days in the same spot leading my brother to think he was dead. He was very lethargic and thin, and he had a gash on his side and leg, and part of his shell was ripped off (We theorized a lawnmower accident but we can't be sure). He looked like he hadn't eaten in a very long time. I took him home, cleaned up his wounds, fed him up on the few things that he would eat, and put him in a clean enclosure with fresh water. He gained a tremendous amount of weight and his wounds have scarred over. And now he will eat EVERYTHING! Voraciously! However, I didn't feel right releasing him back in to the wild due to his inability to close his shell and the fact that the woods behind my brother's condo are being torn down to make room for more condos. Sooo, when Daisy moved in she had a boyfriend already waiting here for her. And they have bonded, so I feel I have to keep him. Although, no one had to twist my arm. He's such a sweetheart!

Sorry, I kind of got side-tracked from your original question! I feel confident that they are both healthy. However, is there a checklist of things I should look for with them prior to their hibernation? They both have very clear eyes, are very alert, have been eating well and overall, they seem happy. No discharge of any kind from nose or mouth, no wheezing, nothing. They have both been on a diet of watermelon, carrots, cantelope (their favorite), honeydew, strawberries, and tomatoes, mixed with a little of this commercial food. They haven't been eating as much lately because of the colder temperatures. As I stated above, I'm confident in Daisy's ability to hibernate healthwise, however, because I'm not familiar with the effects of hibernation, I cannot be as confident with Dozer. What do you think? I'm not really set up to have him live indoors, however, if it isn't safe for him to hibernate, I will definitely accomidate him He's very sweet and I want to keep him safe. He's already been through enough! Thanks for all your advice, and if you have any further comments I'd love to hear them!
-Lisa

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My Kids:
Jack Russel Terrier: Skipper
Miniature Pinscher: Bambi
3 Eastern Box Turtles: Daisy, Dozer, and Magnum (yearling)
1 Red Eared Slider: Rosie
1 Twist Neck Turtle: Lilypad
2 rats: Clementine and Elsie

>>I love all of your pictures!!! I think it is wonderful that you rescue so many injured animals and and I adore the fact that you have so many rats! At one point I had 4 in a 3 story mansion of a cage Its amazing how much personality is stored in such a little package!

I noticed in your signature that you have rats too. They are so fabulous, I've been keeping them for almost 12 years now, I can't imagine life without them!
This little group of 5 that I have right now have been through so much. 3 of them are spayed now, 2 were spayed a year ago when they both had tumors on their throats. They have done wonderfully ever since. Spaying prevented more tumors.
My blue self girl is handicapped, permanent head tilt from a severe ear infection when she was a baby. She had pyometra in June & had to have an emergency spay. She's doing great now too. I have the best vet I've ever had, she's saved all their lives & does a great job with reptiles too.

Anyway yeah.. lol back to the subject at hand. :::grin:::

Ok so as far as Dozer goes honestly if he were mine, I'd keep him indoors & awake for winter. I've had vets & my zoo keeper pal tell me in the past that without a known history on one & one that has been trhough illness/injury, it's best not to hibernate for at least the first year because even if they seem to be well, we can't know exactly what is going on inside those bodies of theirs because they do tend to hide symptoms.
Last year was my first year with Janie the one we picked up off the busy highway where she was nearly hit by cars 6 times by the time we got to her. I was going to break my own rule for her, I was going to leave her outside & let her hibernate.
I wasn't sure if she was wild or not when we first picked her up but in a few days I thought, she had to have been a pet. She was so clean, so pretty and so friendly compared to truly wild ones I've encountered, I really lean toward being 98% sure she had been someone's pet.
Going on the idea that she may have been wild or at least had been a backyard turtle somewhere I let her stay outside all summer & into the fall. I thought she'll hibernate like Hobo the wild boy but no she sat outside in cold pouring rain & got sick. She ended up indoors anyway. :-x

When they're indoors I just keep them in a large Rubbermaid box, cost me a whole 12 bucks.
Then I bought a Dragon's Lair heat pad that's made to go under plastic boxes, stuck on a 100 watt ceramic heat emitter that I seldom have to use & for a pretty low price, we're set up for indoors.
So it's not just what people have told me, it's my own experiences that would lead me to keep Dozer in the house at least this winter if he were mine.
Next year would likely be a different story.
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PHRatz

Thank you! I've considered how structurally sound the enclosure is and I've decided I am going to make some slight changes. The lattice is very pretty but unfortunately it isn't very strong. I will be running a 2x4 across the middle of each side (where the lattice meets the plywood) to firm up the lattice at its base and make the sides a little higher for my escape artists. Also, I'm going to make a frame for the lattice "door" and put it on hinges instead of just letting it hang from nails As I said, this is my first attempt so I'm learning as I go. Hopefully, it will still be as asthetically pleasing when I'm done firming it up!
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My Kids:
Jack Russel Terrier: Skipper
Miniature Pinscher: Bambi
3 Eastern Box Turtles: Daisy, Dozer, and Magnum (yearling)
1 Red Eared Slider: Rosie
1 Twist Neck Turtle: Lilypad
2 rats: Clementine and Elsie